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Amanita frostiana


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#1 wildedibles

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Posted 27 July 2014 - 02:22 PM

I believe I have this rare mushroom growing it has taken me a few years to really get to know the different yellow Amanita's I have growing near me.

These ones are growing in a deep dark part of the woods and here is balsam trees around mixed with a couple of cotton wood trees around not many just a couple mostly balsam trees making it really dark.

 

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This one has a lighter bulb and stem than the other 2 I  found next

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Notice the rim edge on the bulb they all have this rim around the edge of a round bulb

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I live in a small town near Algonquin park in Ontario it has woods all around deep woods

These are found about an hour walk into the woods they r near a trail but people rarely go off the trail so the woods is basically untouched wild land :) we have many species of plants trees and mushrooms i have never seen before like Indian Pipes lots of spring flowers rich woods and I am a rich person for having found these secrete places :)

 

If this mushroom is right it is a rare mushroom not many are found and the ones found might be a different mushroom all together ... I do collect and dry a few of these mushrooms every year for study leaving lots to make more very important when dealing with rare variety of anything even if it is plentyful where u r dosnt mean u can collect all you can find leave some to keep the numbers very healthy :)

 

I have eaten this mushroom once or twice dried and cooked with no ill effects ....they have a smell to them I believe there is something in the smell that works like an antidepressant well for me anyway u dont have to eat it to feel it ;) or maybe its just me walking in the woods always helps me but when I find these mushrooms I get really happy and excited :)


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#2 roscoe

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Posted 27 July 2014 - 03:05 PM

Cool find!

 

I am not familiar with this Amanita, off to wikki I go.

 

 

These ones are growing in a deep dark part of the woods and here is balsam trees around mixed with a couple of cotton wood trees around not many just a couple mostly balsam trees making it really dark.

med_gallery_121976_1444_78.jpg

 

Looks like there are some Maples near by as well.


Edited by cyclenaut, 27 July 2014 - 03:06 PM.

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#3 EstimatedProphet

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Posted 27 July 2014 - 03:56 PM

As far as research into the genus Amanita is concerned, I would check here.


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#4 warriorsoul

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Posted 27 July 2014 - 04:33 PM

Amanita flavoconia.


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#5 wildedibles

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Posted 27 July 2014 - 06:00 PM

Yes there is a maple bush above this area blending in thanks for that :)

 

I am not too sure on Amanita flavoconia because I think I have both types here ......I have more pictures to add and some info from mushroom expert and amanitaceae.org  ..... to be certain either way I would have to test the spores they would have to be inamyloid spores and A. flavoconia has amyloid spores.

I ran into problems with this last year but I really think this could be a rare find I only see these deep in the woods and I find the others everywhere .....

maybe we can re name this thread Amanita flavoconia vs frostiana ?  so I can compare these 2 in the same spot and see what others have to say ?

 

here is the info that I have been using besides wikipedia

 

http://www.amanitace...anita frostiana

 

Amanita frostiana is a rather small species of the eastern U.S.A. and southeastern Canada—extending as far north as boreal forest on the Island of Newfoundland.  With the exception of some localities, it is not commonly encountered; and the great majority of supposed collections of the present species are found to be wrongly determined material of Amanita flavoconia G. F. Atk.  The latter species has ellipsoid, amyloid spores and no persistent collar of volval material at the top of the bulb.

this is what i find different from the ones I find everywhere they have no round bulb with collar only the rare ones in the woods do and i only see them in one area never anywhere else

now I believe myself that mushrooms vary quite a bit and I believe they can even possibly breed together or maybe with DNA studdies it is the same mushroom growing in very different habitats?

I bring it up because it is something that is still bugging me

 

 

http://www.mushroome...flavoconia.html

 

Microscopic Features: Spores 6.5-9 x 4-7 µ; smooth; ellipsoid; amyloid. Pileipellis a cutis or ixocutis of hyphae 3-7 µ wide. Basidia 4-spored; without clamps. Lamellar trama bilateral; subhymenium ramose.

REFERENCES: Atkinson, 1902. (Saccardo,1905; Kauffman, 1918; Smith, Smith & Weber, 1979; Thiers, 1982; Arora, 1986; Jenkins, 1986; Phillips, 1991/2005; Lincoff, 1992; Metzler & Metzler, 1992; Horn, Kay & Abel, 1993; Barron, 1999; Roody, 2003; McNeil, 2006; Miller & Miller, 2006; Binion et al., 2008.) Herb. Kuo 06199501, 06130205, 07080703, 06220804, 06221012, 06221303.

Similar species include Amanita frostiana, which usually features a whiter stem and a somewhat lined cap margin, as well as a persistent ring of volval material around the upper edge of the stem base and (more definitively) round, inamyloid spores; as well as a poorly known species, Amanita elongata (cap more yellow than orange, stem more white than yellow).

Further Online Information:

Amanita flavoconia at Studies in the Amanitaceae
Amanita flavoconia at Roger's Mushrooms

 


Edited by wildedibles, 27 July 2014 - 06:29 PM.


#6 wildedibles

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Posted 27 July 2014 - 06:45 PM

I would have to say this one is smaller too but this could be that is it growing in the dark part of the woods where Indian pipes grow and some mosses false lily of the valley this is not an area that u get lush vegetation just the forest needles and some leaves ;) oh there is Birch close by too but further on the outside like the maple

 

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the collar I am talking about white or almost a cream color I have one of each baby in the collection i have now one really yellow and one really white same collar.....I made sure to notice that it wasnt rubbed off on the ground but there was rain I noticed the color yellow on these disappears in the rain washes away?

 

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same mushroom as above

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same as above

 

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some have a whiter stem than others some r really yellow some are almost white

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same mushroom as above more white to the stem and bulb

 

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thoes 2 are the same and this one is the same too

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and this one

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and this one

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and this one

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this one the stem is alot more yellow a snail was eating the other one but same of the new babies not eaten are more white too

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same as

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the snail has this one almost eaten

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i think this one is the top

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very yellow new baby collar not really noticeable on this one...


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#7 warriorsoul

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Posted 28 July 2014 - 01:13 AM

The margin of A. frostiana becomes slightly striate in age. They do not interbreed, if they did, they would be the same species. It appears you have a mixed collection.


Edited by warriorsoul, 28 July 2014 - 01:24 AM.

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#8 Spooner

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Posted 28 July 2014 - 03:00 AM

Thanks for the virtual walk in the woods Wilde, it is always a pleasure.


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#9 wildedibles

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Posted 28 July 2014 - 05:32 AM

The margin of A. frostiana becomes slightly striate in age. They do not interbreed, if they did, they would be the same species. It appears you have a mixed collection.

I do not have a striate one this time around but when they r mature and fresh  fully open some are striate the mature fully open ones are dried out and the edge is sticky together well dried out i think this is why it isnt showing itself as striate

 

and thanks for clearing the breeding up for me ;) I  respect your knowledge and you have worked on these explaining them to me before if it wasnt for you I wouldnt know half as much as I do now buddy so thanks for your help :)


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#10 wildedibles

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Posted 28 July 2014 - 06:06 AM

The ones that we find everywhere are popping up just b4 these ones came up and I have collected a few ...it is harder sometimes to get the whole bulb but I do have a few with the whole mushroom ;)

 

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This is an open field mixed trees maple birch spruce pine less balsam more open field with trees around the edge

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bottom is the one off the top of above picture it didnt come out with the bulb it is harder to dig these bulbs out without loosing half of it or getting none at all

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This was under the larger top cap and it has some spores on it :)

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Here is part of the bulb stem all I could get out of the ground notice how the bugs are staining the stem as they chew threw ;)

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bottom there is one popping up right beside the spruce tree usually I find these near spruce trees around this area

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#11 warriorsoul

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Posted 28 July 2014 - 06:56 PM

Cool, Wild. I'm interested in your use of A. frostiana. How does it compare with the effects of the common eastern fly-agaric? There is scant information about this species online in regards to the amount (if any) of ibotenic acid and muscimol it contains..


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#12 wildedibles

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Posted 28 July 2014 - 07:16 PM

I ate it maybe 2 times in scrambled eggs lightly fried then fried the eggs yummy taste but the mushroom was soo tiny I don't know if I can represent it well yet.

I remember feeling warm like with fly-agaric and helps other things taste really  yummy like it does but I don't remember and it was tiny so leave it open for now.

Since there is not much info on the internet about it the edibility I have been not jumping in eating it all the time but I do lick my finger and the top of the mushroom testing it done this many many times no sick feeling nice and warm feeling.

 

I do feel an excitement as well helps to get you motivated I would say instead of putting you to sleep.

I say there is something to the smell of these I know when they r out there they call me into that part of the woods some mushrooms defiantly have a smell and they have  a unique one maybe sweet and I do get more hyper feeling like I mentioned b4 like doing something.

With fly-agaric I can smell them too usually it leads me to the spot these 2 mushrooms I can find b4 hubby but usually he is the one to spot mushrooms.

The ones that I find with spruce trees I do not smell them I can walk right by them and hubby says there's one is it the right one I take one look and know I didnt smell sure enough its not the right ones.

So I would say there is a couple of similarities with Amanita frostiana and fly-agaric more so then Amanita flavoconia.

 

They are just starting to pop up now I will have a chance in the next week or two to gather a few more in different stages of life ...one group I have to leave them alone they have a hornets nest under them and I got stung but I was here asking for medicine and it kinda proved to me that bee stings are good for arthritis and well that Amanita's are strong medicine when u r asking for some ;)


Edited by wildedibles, 28 July 2014 - 07:23 PM.

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#13 wildedibles

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Posted 28 July 2014 - 08:00 PM

I have some pictures to add from the ones I have here / collected

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As they start to dry u can still see the collar there one stem is more white one more yellow

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you can notice the collar more in this picture it is always round not oval or elongated always round with a collar

The color of the cap, stem, etc all varies a little ....... I remember perfect adult mature mushrooms are striate but not until they open to a flat cap, I only seen 2 like this and the snail has gotten to them not in very great condition it is still early there is more baby's and ones still under the ground yet :)

 

med_gallery_121976_1444_114782.jpg

The top 2 caps didnt have the bulb / volva attached they were found around spruce trees in more open areas very plentyfull

The bottom one found around a spruce tree in open area notice the bulb / volva is oval or long not round no collar but has yellow fuzzy stuff that gets lost in the dirt the bulb is often hard to get out of the ground ....if you do there is a bigger root coming from the bottom sorry removed it so the tops don't get soo dirty in the basket.

 

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I find staining in the bottom of the stem in some of these depending if the bugs got to it yet and the age more mature - more staining but this I am not sure if it is dirt I scratched it off...?? ...now staining is always by bugs touching it or scratching it does not cause it to stain just the bug grub worms  not snail holes

 

gallery_121976_1444_70554.jpg

Them all with the 1st fly-agaric of the season :) The size of the A. frostiana is comparable to the smallest A. flavoconia. Usually the biggest A. frostiana is the same size as the smallest A. flavoconia.

 

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The top 2 are the first ones i found this year and they r dried now found them with spruce trees and have an oval bulb to them but they were tiny mushrooms about the same as the A. frostiana.

 

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tiny but oval bulb no collar in a very open place

 

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Oval yellow stuff but no collar kinda looks like it but its just a line as it grows.....

 

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and them all as the A. frostiana dries they will be the same size as the ones on the left or smaller.....

 

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Here is the big staining in the stem I was talking about :)


Edited by wildedibles, 28 July 2014 - 08:52 PM.

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#14 wildedibles

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Posted 30 July 2014 - 05:40 AM

I went back out yesterday and found some that are more mature :)

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well this one is young and the collar is missing on this one???

 

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The last 2 pictures are the same older mushroom notice the striate margin

 

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This  is another one half eaten

 

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close up of striate margin

 

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and a close up of the collar

 

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#15 Guitarista

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Posted 30 July 2014 - 08:51 AM

That is one beautiful looking mushroom. I especially like the pics with the moss covered log right behind it. My fave though is the one where you have those

two mature ones side by side dead center in the photo with the woods in the background. I know that feeling when your on the hunt, walking through nature and

everything is green, then boom! You see those two beauties just shining through! It's a great feeling


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#16 wildedibles

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Posted 30 July 2014 - 03:14 PM

I know the ones u r talking about they r my fav too :) and ya thoes 2 right in the middle there....the others were calling me to see more but I had just found these ones and I really didnt want to go climbing in where I havent been b4 it was a new spot and I am kinda leary about getting stung again by thoes hornets ;) even tho they made me feel better ...... mixed emotions still with the bees lol

but ya I had to get at least one picture of thoes 2 growing together these ones sometimes do that grow with a buddy or a small family U will see one then another and if u look close you will see a baby or 2 peeking out of the ground ;)

Thanks for your time :)

 

med_gallery_121976_1444_18773.jpg

This is a different one that is found with the spruce trees there is pine around too a few other trees I cannot remember ....there was a nice big one but it is in the middle of someones yard and I keep going by too early or too late to ask if I could take pictures of it or take it for study ......this one I found right next to the side walk this morning I thought it was perfect instead of going to the middle of the yard bugging people there is no spray here .......I have seen about 5 or more pop up in this yard now over the last week watching them patiently :) today was the morning one came to me to say hi ;)

med_gallery_121976_1444_62770.jpg

The margin on these is striate too??

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The bulb volva has no collar just some cream / yellow fuzzy stuff that comes off really easily

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close up the stem is almost hairy with the fuzzy stuff looking like cotton candy :) lol

med_gallery_121976_1444_4567.jpg

Delicate skirt and this one is the same size as the A. frostiana but the other one in the middle of the yard the the A. frostiana do not get that big .....actually with the A. frostiana they tend to be the same size when they r mature u could almost measure every one and have them all the same size for the age of the mushroom ....

med_gallery_121976_1444_120878.jpg

 

 


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#17 warriorsoul

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Posted 30 July 2014 - 03:30 PM

These are lovely examples of A. frostiana. The volval remnants at the base can be somewhat variable in their morphological presentation. The larger ones could be a small A. muscaria var. guessowii, however A. frostiana can get somewhat larger as well, but never as big as A. muscaria var. guessowii can get.. Thank you for sharing! If you wanna send out samples I can have the DNA compared.


Edited by warriorsoul, 30 July 2014 - 03:40 PM.

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#18 Stig7580

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Posted 30 July 2014 - 03:43 PM

Nice pics :) Im gonna have to go searching in the forest near me to see what i can find. Just dont know where to start.


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#19 wildedibles

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Posted 30 July 2014 - 09:57 PM

Ah anywhere can be a start :) ....see what u can find in a forest near you :) The low spots are a good place to look but even in  higher places u can find lots of interesting mushrooms :) have fun and good luck :)

 

Warriorsoul I have them drying and I have taken a few spore samples too when they r ready I can send you some samples to get checked out thanks very much they have me very curious :)



#20 OnyxObelisk

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Posted 01 August 2014 - 03:51 AM

Really enjoyed this post! Your pictures are so detailed and gorgeous. The mushrooms look to be in a pristine state. Can't say I'd be depressed after that find either!!


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