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Is space the next step in man's evolution ?


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#1 Guest_roo_*

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Posted 07 January 2004 - 09:45 PM

Hippie3,

There are many reasons I think we may have never heard anything.

1. We have only scaned a small part of the "sky". We have also only scaned a small number of fregs also.

2. Maybe most species destroy themselves before they reach the point we are at.

2. We are alone, not as bad as some might think as we have it all to ourselves.

3 We realy are the "new kids" in the galexy and every other species is well beyond things such as radio. They may have stoped using radio millions of years ago.

4. Maybe we have recieved messages, It is not a far out thing to say that the "powers that be", would rather not change the current belief systems that keep tham in power. It would change our entire society, religion etc if there was proof. They have made many plants and fungi illegal so as to keep us from independant thought and experiance. Such a concept is not all that far out when one considers the dark side of human history.


#2 Guest_roo_*

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Posted 07 January 2004 - 10:07 PM

As far as advanced species being agressive goes I do agree. But agressive in what way? Maybe physical agression serves a species well at one point in its evolution and other forms of agression at another.

If I found a 3 foot tall alien roming around my house and charged him with a knife that is the type of agression that has served us well for the past million years or so. The alien would probably just push a button and restrain me. Maybe it would just "think" it. I think a mental/intelectual agression will win out over physical agression.

If I realy did find a 3 foot tall alien in my house I would not go after it with a knife or my fists. I would rather get it stoned and sit around and BS the rest of the night. Who knows it might just take me back to its ship and get me stoned!!?? I would be shure to ask for a few seeds or trade a few prints with it for shure. I think curiosity is a form of agression also.

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#3 Guest_hippie3_*

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Posted 08 January 2004 - 08:20 AM

you might be surprised to discover that you would be utterly paralyzed with fear if you really did encounter ET.

#4 Guest_hippie3_*

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Posted 08 January 2004 - 08:27 AM

another point to consider on the radio question-
everyone seems to be assuming i'm limited to deliberate attempts to contact us,
and so argue 'They may have stoped using radio millions of years ago.'
i argue that's impossible,
technological civilizations would still emit radio waves as a natural byproduct of technology itself, the simple act of electricity flowing generates radio, as does the movement of a magnetic field, also ionizing atoms and radioactive decay/fission/fusion all generate radio. again it's pretty difficult to imagine an interstellar civilization that didn't use electricity or magnetism, etc. is some manner.
besides, there should be tens of thousands of alien intelligences at least out there in a universe this large and this old, surely not every single one is as highly evolved into pure energy beings as many seem partial to imagine.
[watch too much Star Trek, imo.]

besides, they too went thru the process of evolving to that higher form, somewhere along the way to godhead they must have passed thru their equivalent of the industrial age and the radio signals should still be out there, just as the signal from the original 'Big Bang' can still be detected.


(Message edited by admin on January 08, 2004)

#5 Guest_roo_*

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Posted 08 January 2004 - 06:19 PM

"watch too much Star Trek, imo"

I am busted! Posted Image

Everything here reminds me that there are infinit possibilities out there and a finite amount here. We should go to space, even if we are alone in the universe. Humans have always looked "up there" for something, it apears to be our destiny. We need to explore, we need to expand, it realy is a part of who we are. If a group of people did not like living where they where a few hundred hundred years ago they went to america. Now where do they go? I say to the stars, new worlds.

(Message edited by roo on January 08, 2004)

#6 Guest_owls_*

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Posted 09 January 2004 - 05:11 PM

Well, what would we be looking for if we were looking for intelligent life? Maybe we're not yet what an alien civilisation considers intelligent. Or, maybe they send out a bunch of spam, and then when NASA sends back a reply like 'Please take us off your mailing list' the ETs say 'AHA!' and send out a food-finding mission.

#7 Guest_rodger_*

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Posted 10 January 2004 - 06:14 PM

"'They may have stopped using radio millions of years ago.'
i argue that's impossible,
technological civilizations would still emit radio waves as a natural byproduct of technology itself, the simple act of electricity flowing generates radio, as does the movement of a magnetic field, also ionizing atoms and radioactive decay/fission/fusion all generate radio."

But, what I meant above is perhaps they don't even use electricity. Maybe they've developed a chemical power system. Possibly they developed a biological power system. These things would not be picked up by our sensors. Also, with billions of years since the big bang, and only 100 years or so since Marconi, it's facetious to think we know all about radio waves.


#8 Guest_roo_*

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Posted 10 January 2004 - 06:17 PM

I think your on to something there Rodger Rabbit.. It has me thinking.

#9 Guest_mjshroomer_*

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Posted 11 January 2004 - 12:19 AM

Iread the othr day that Bush want to go to outer space, so I say, "let 'em."

When my son was ten he was watching one of those 'save the children' foundation commercials and at rthe time a space shuttle had just returned to earth.

By boy asked me why s they spend so much money on going to outer space when there are sop many starving and homeless people in the world and millions of children who need shelter and food. They he says, "Don' t they know we are already in the middle of outer space."

I thought well thats smarts.

50 million miles to the left of us is probably no farter than 50 million l miles to the right of us.

mj

#10 Guest_hippie3_*

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Posted 13 January 2004 - 10:22 PM

i'm one of that generation that cut its' teeth on space travel in science fiction and on the tv news, we all just assumed that it was inevitable that mankind was poised to expand across the universe.
and i still believe we will, but it will take alot longer than i had hoped.
but we have to go,
we've already just about ruined this planet,
time to start looking for a new home.
and as the wise man said,
a journey of a thousand miles
begins with a single step.
besides, our cousins await us out there somewhere,
as well as our final destiny.
anything that gets us closer to that goal
i'm in favor of.
so i plan to watch mr. bush's speach tomorrow,
and i hope the anti-bush people don't throw the baby out with the bath water.
like bush or not,
we need more money for NASA
and if some hyped up race to the moon and mars
versus china and europe and the russians
gets us that
then so be it and god bless.




#11 Guest_roo_*

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Posted 13 January 2004 - 11:16 PM

Hippie3,

The 60's and early 70's where a great time for science fiction...

Books:

2001, Arthur C. Clarke
 
A Canticle for Leibowitz, Walter M. Miller, Jr.
 
The Deep Range, Arthur C. Clarke
 
The Man Who Sold the Moon, Robert A. Heinlein
 
Tales from White Hart, Arthur C. Clarke
 
Childhood's end, Arthur C. Clarke
 
I, Robot, Issac Asimov

Ringworld, Larry Niven
 
Rendezvous with RAMA, Arthur C. Clark.
 
Venus on the Half Shell, Kilgore Trout

Dune, Frank Herbert


Movies/Tv


Logan's Run
 
Soylent Green
 
The Andromeda Strain

A Clockwork Orange

The Omega Man

Planet of the Apes
 
The Twilight Zone

Sleeper
 
THX 1138

Star Trek


I think the science fiction of this time encouraged people to dream, and it did influence many people to become engineers and scientists. It was not "real" but it did challenge us to reach a higher leval of existance. Unlike what I consider the sensless violence of today SF, the stuff back then was more philosophical, it made one think.. Maybe I am wrong, but can you say that people then wanted less to be entertained and more inspired? It is hard to imagine that this age is more escapist than the 60's, but perhaps we have more to escape from now; Terrorism, war, our money does not buy that much anymore, layoffs, etc. Our society seems to be much more consumed with violence and decadence than it was back then also. More concerned with short term goals than long term. As much as I want us to build a base on the moon and go to mars, I do not think this generation could commit itself to such a long term investment as the generation of the 60's commited itself to space. Science itself has changed alot since that time. It is almost impossibe to get a grant anymore for basic research, all the grants go to the applied sciences, stuff that pays off tommorow and not 10 years from now. Perhaps Bush would use such a program to change this? This is complex. Most people do not know the mass of new tek and knowlege we gained from the space race of the 60's. The internet was something that came from this time. As where smaller and faster computers. It was a long term investment that paid a huge dividend many years down the road.

#12 Guest_myco_*

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Posted 14 January 2004 - 10:39 AM

"besides, our cousins await us out there somewhere,
as well as our final destiny"
a bit confused on the final destiny part , no one told me we were going somewhere ,i thought we were just cruisin , lol

#13 Guest_hippie3_*

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Posted 14 January 2004 - 11:35 AM

roo,
can't believe you didn't mention The Foundation Trilogy also by Asimov [a true genius, imho]
It is hard to imagine that this age is more escapist than the 60's, but perhaps we have more to escape from now; Terrorism, war, our money does not buy that much anymore, layoffs, etc. Our society seems to be much more consumed with violence and decadence than it was back then also. More concerned with short term goals than long term.
in truth, it was the same even then,
maybe even worse
there was vietnam, the cold war & nuclear armageddon, race riots, the draft, sexual revolution, and we still had terrorism , inflation, crooked politicians, corporate government.
today is just the same old shit.


#14 banjojo

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Posted 14 January 2004 - 11:37 AM

I say we spend that money on giving people free college. We won't be able to hold back technology then.

#15 Guest_hippie3_*

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Posted 14 January 2004 - 12:15 PM

people just don't appreciate things as much when they are handed it free,
it'd be better to put money into some kind of work-study program to help those who are serious and capable of college level work.
just handing every fool a check for free tuition would be a bigger waste of money, imo, than going to the moon.
how many kids f*ck off in college now at their parents' expense, i sure don't want to have to foot part of that bill.

#16 Guest_smerd_*

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Posted 14 January 2004 - 01:09 PM

I got a kick out of The Daily Show's description of this mission: The Mars Distraction. (Not to say it's not worthwhile...)

#17 Guest_myco_*

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Posted 20 January 2004 - 07:46 PM

another link on futuristic world views
http://www.euvolution.com/index2.htm

#18 Guest_hippie3_*

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Posted 20 January 2004 - 07:54 PM

scary people, imho.


#19 Guest_roo_*

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Posted 20 January 2004 - 10:31 PM

Hippie3,

You might be older than me, you may have lived that era as an adult. I dont know, maybe the 60's seemed better becouse I was a kid then. Things always seem better when you where a kid I think. I grew up with a bunch of hippy folk also. The ones that fled the cities for the country. There where problems at first with the locals but everyone got along in the end. We all had farms, we where self suficient, we fixed things and rarly threw anything away. It was a pretty simple life, some may say poor, but I would just say happy. Maybe this is reason I think things changed. I grew up in the country, got a good job and moved to the suburbs, now I am back in the country. I am actualy better off my ex got the house in the suburbs! I can see the stars at night now, relaxing on my back porch smoking a fatty, in my underware if I so chose.. I feel better being around people who can actualy do things on their own. Maybe it was just the area I grew up in, very rural. People in rural areas seem to distrust the feds more than they do in the cities. The sheriff is the law here and he does not care what anyone does as long as no one get hurt, there is no property damage, and he does not have the feds sniffing around.

Vietnam was bad, I had a few friends from school lose fathers there. Some lost their lives, some lost their minds. That was my experiance with vietnam along with what I saw on tv.

Yea Asimov was a true visionary, I think he will someday be compared to Jules Vern. Clarke was great also. I liked the way he used symbols in his work. I realy liked that era of sci fi!

Maybe it was that the worst of times that brought out the best in people. People do become worse during good times I have noticed. People did get better after 911 in some ways. But they slowly seemed to go back to the way they where before that event.

Space? Mars? The Moon? Alot of good could come from that. But what I am worried about is people not being far sighted enough to see the benefits down the road. Like I said, the moon shot in 69 probably put us ahead 50 years in 10 short years. I wonder what kind of leap we will take going to mars?






 

#20 Guest_hippie3_*

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Posted 05 January 2004 - 08:14 PM

some make the argument that it is inevitable that humanity will eventually become an interplanetary then an interstellar species,
living upon more than just planet earth.
there are some 90[?] 'worlds' in just our solar system, some quite small like the moons of mars while others are so huge as to boggle the mind, like jupiter.
in just the last decade astronomers have detected dozens of extra-solar planets orbiting nearby stars.
it's beginning to look like our work is cut out for us, there's plenty of room to spred out.
the real question is-
will we ?
is it physically even possible ?
or should we just stay here ?






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