Paradox
©
Fisana

Jump to content


- - - - -

Is space the next step in man's evolution ?


  • Please log in to reply
116 replies to this topic

#41 Guest_hippie3_*

Guest_hippie3_*
  • Guest

Posted 06 January 2004 - 09:51 AM

in truth the technology already exists to mount an interstellar mission, at least most of it.
its' the cost that is prohibitive.
of course we must assume that such a mission would be centuries long, huge 'generation' ships travelling at only a fraction of the speed of light upon which colonists would lives out 'normal' lives, and it would be their great-grandchildren who would be the ones to actually reach new earths.
of course it'd be great if somehow 'warp drive' dropped into our laps but we can't count on it.
we may well be forced to rely on nuclear engines and light sails for propulsion, making even nearby stars a journey requiring 200-500 years travel time.



#42 Guest_geoffrey_*

Guest_geoffrey_*
  • Guest

Posted 06 January 2004 - 10:18 AM

Whoa, what a coincidence, if there's such a thing. I had a looong talk with this kid I teach English to about the same damn thing today. He said that scientists are working on a way to get on Mars right now. The ozone layers too thin and we're gonna get bakedPosted ImagePosted Image!!! Yeah....in about 80-100 billion years, unless we blow ourselves up firstPosted Image Cool you guys gots nice smiley faces now. Funny thing- Mycotopia just got back up on my comp. today....usually I'm at the nook to be honest , but my comp. ( and many other comps in my area ) will not go onto that site ....and I haven't been able to get on the nook or Mycotopia at all for the past week and a half....both sites....real weird. Anyway..PeacePosted Image
edited to insert cool smileys Posted Image
Posted Image

(Message edited by Geeraff on January 06, 2004)

(Message edited by Geeraff on January 06, 2004)

#43 Guest_hippie3_*

Guest_hippie3_*
  • Guest

Posted 06 January 2004 - 10:29 AM

that <u>is</u> weird,
we were briefly 'out of touch' as we switched servers last week, it's possible that you were in an area where the new dns info took awhile to reach.
of course that doesn't explain your difficulties at the nook...
anyway,
Posted Image

#44 Guest_hippie3_*

Guest_hippie3_*
  • Guest

Posted 06 January 2004 - 10:38 AM

<font color="119911">what do you think the results of "First contact" would be? Do you think it would alter the course of human evolution? </font>
yes, contact with another intelligent species would certainly alter the course of humanity.
but for better or for worse ?
in earth history,
contact between disparate cultures has always been pretty disastrous for whichever culture was behind technologically.
so meeting a more advanced species could mean trouble, perhaps even extinction.
i don't think we can safely assume that we'll be met by friendly ET's who'll 'guide' us gently to a higher level of civilization.
it seems more likely to me to believe that there will be great variety in alien species and while some may be friendly, others may not.
some may take a look a humanity and decide that we pose a threat to galactic peace & stability.
others may find us to be quite tasty.
Posted Image

#45 Guest_geoffrey_*

Guest_geoffrey_*
  • Guest

Posted 06 January 2004 - 10:56 AM

We may be monitored right now by aliens making sure that we aren't posing a threat to....who? Ourselves ? Unless your thinking that the destruction of this planet could jeapordize the safety of other planets. Or if we get to far technologically and become able to reach other planets, we could be seen as a threat...maybe. I would like to think otherwise though. I would like to that evolved aliens have a high enough consciousness to prevent more violence and destruction...that could "guide us to a higher level of civilization" , or at least try. Posted Image

#46 Guest_myco_*

Guest_myco_*
  • Guest

Posted 06 January 2004 - 11:42 AM

Much has to be said also about the term 'intelligence' , what do we mean by intelligence ? the capacity to survive could be seen as a form of intelligence , like in the tests from Rabbit's labyrinth , i've heard professors say that entities enter our space all of the time like virusses and co.
Would we recognize intelligence , confronted with alien organisms ? Dolphins are higly intelligent ,still it is only in the last decades that people realize that fact
For a looooooong time to come mother earth will stay our womb ,our base from where we start to explore ,so we'll have to take care of the environment and looking at the alternatives ,none of them has the advantages of our earth ,time the human race start to realize the fact
they would probably bring a lot of dna samples on board of such longterm spacetravels to preserve the richness of variety of the human race

#47 Guest_hippie3_*

Guest_hippie3_*
  • Guest

Posted 06 January 2004 - 12:17 PM

i think what we mean by intelligence, at least in terms of this discusion, is technology.
whales and dolphins and elephants and gray parrots may be geniuses but they'll never build starships.
for a species to be any threat to us,
they must have space technology.
i guess of course that we could have just radio contact, much easier but so far no signals have been found, which would tend to indicate that technology may still be quite rare even if life and intelligence is not.

#48 Guest_i_am_me_*

Guest_i_am_me_*
  • Guest

Posted 06 January 2004 - 12:35 PM

I feel as if man will either become extinct or be forced to rebuild our world eventually. Just existing is playing the odds. Eventually if we do not get off of this planet something will happen. A massive earthquake, a meteor, a drought, floods...something that will wipe out 90% of the earth as we know it and we will be forced to start over again. I think this will happen before we develop plans to try and colonize another place. Personally I hope it doesn't happen in my lifetime as I have grown quite fond of the amenities we have supplied ourselves with. I think before humanity can realistically look beyond Earth we need to learn a little more on how to live together with nature effectively.

#49 Guest_burnt_*

Guest_burnt_*
  • Guest

Posted 06 January 2004 - 12:49 PM

i was actually thinking about this subject the other day Posted Image and yea what i think is that we are obviously reaching the limits of our planets ability to sustain humanity. however if soceity changed the way we do things incorporatiing biotechnology traditional ecological knowledge and just only used environmnetal friendly technology in general and curbed the population to a dead halt recycled everything we could live sustainably. how nice it would be. but life has a strong tendency to grow and keep exploring so i think not only should we revert to sustainable ways of life but we should continue to grow and i think the right direction to take is to the stars. modern physics is making it more and more clear to me at least that its entirely possible to get there. quantum mechanics and neurochemistry is showing us that our mind "consiousness" plays major roles in making reality what it is. according to quantum theory there is an infinite number of possibilities for every quantum event like an electron moving through space or something. but somehow amungst all these infinite possibilities our consious expereince only exists in one of these possibilites. somehow mind or consioussness is involved in causing one of these events to happen a term called state vector collapse. theres alot more neurochemical and physical data to support these ideas but its heavy science i dont entirely understand but if anyone is interested theres alot of good info out there. but what im trying to get at is physics has put a limit on how fast we can go einstein is right that you cant move faster then the speed of light it would require an infinite amount of energy which just isnt possible. so i think its pretty unlikely that aliens are gonna send us a radio wave to contact us or some shit. but our mind is performing quantum miracles all the time. its entirely possible and i think fundamentally true that our mind can transcend these limits via its abilities to control whats making up reality in the first place. im sort of getting side tracked but the point im trying to make is that our first contact experience with other intelligence will come in the realm of the mind. infact it may already have. drugs like dmt occuring naturally in our minds and in many other forms of life often give alien contact experiences. perhaps other forms of life have mastered more of these othermind dimensional realms who knows the possibilities are so many i dont know the answer but the science is there. its not science fiction. as far as traveling through space itll take a very long time unless we can figure out how to bend warp and control space time because your not going past the speed of light. i would imagine such things are possible but im not sure yet how id would be done. i think many of these answers can be answered or at least better understood by further research into the mind physics psychedelic drugs and even fundamentally true spiritual faith. anyone see what im saying or thought of something similar?

#50 Guest_roo_*

Guest_roo_*
  • Guest

Posted 06 January 2004 - 01:00 PM

"in earth history,
contact between disparate cultures has always been pretty disastrous for whichever culture was behind technologically.
so meeting a more advanced species could mean trouble, perhaps even extinction.
i don't think we can safely assume that we'll be met by friendly ET's who'll 'guide' us gently to a higher level of civilization.
it seems more likely to me to believe that there will be great variety in alien species and while some may be friendly, others may not.
some may take a look a humanity and decide that we pose a threat to galactic peace & stability.
others may find us to be quite tasty. "

Agreed, I wonder if our planet is under some kind of intergalactic quarantine right now. Maybe we scare the crap out of most intelligent alien species out there?

As far as radio contact goes, I would not expect to hear anything from out there. Humans used to use drums and smoke signels to communicate. Then we moved on to better ways of communication. Perhaps a space faring society would use modes of communication far differant than "radio". Perhaps to them our "radio" is like "smoke signals and drums".

Here is a good artical on how advanced extra-terrestrial civilizations could be out there. http://www.mkaku.org...ien_civ s.shtml It all seems to revolve around how much energy a civilization has to play with.

I would suspect that extra-terrestrial civilizations use quantum non-locality based communication instead of radio. Quantum non-locality is pretty cool, basic info here: http://142.103.234.4...02/11/13/0/Page


#51 Guest_dead_*

Guest_dead_*
  • Guest

Posted 06 January 2004 - 01:14 PM

Remember what happened to the Native Americans after Europeans made "first contact"?...... If we ever do reach another planet with alien life on it ,I hope they are intelligent enough to tell us to shove our glass beads up our ass, slaughter us all on the beach and burn our ships to the waterline.

#52 Guest_smerd_*

Guest_smerd_*
  • Guest

Posted 06 January 2004 - 01:37 PM

I think we're just smart enough to blow up ourselves - and everything else - long before achieving effective space travel. The same technology used for space travel happens to be just as wonderful for weapons. I wonder if it's always so - that interstellar travel can't be achieved because the technology threshold for such travel is about the same as that for total self destruction.

Technology advances but, alas, the human mind doesn't... still just enough selfish jackasses to ruin it for the rest of us. I don't think space is the salvation because we'd just stupidly consume and muck that up too. I want to care of Mother Earth first.

#53 Guest_roo_*

Guest_roo_*
  • Guest

Posted 06 January 2004 - 01:49 PM

"Remember what happened to the Native Americans after Europeans made "first contact"?"

This was becouse of religion and racism. Pure and simple. The old "GOD chose us over all alse in creation" bullshit. We destroyed entire worlds when we setteled "America". Entire worlds! I think that religion is the enemy of society/culture and atheism is the enemy of the spirit/soul.

I would suspect that if any species is able to make it off its homeworld it would have had to have evolved beyond such childish things. We think of "Aliens" in "human" terms, and I think that is a mistake. They would have evolved in totaly differant conditions than we did. Their thought processes would be differant as well. Imagine steping into the mind of a cat and existing there, it would be a differant existance. Imagine steping into the mind of a being that evolved around a blue-white star on a planet that has 1.5 times the gravity of earth. Perhaps a species that discovered fire when our world was covered with dinosaurs. Imagine what a species like this would be like now.

#54 Guest_rodger_*

Guest_rodger_*
  • Guest

Posted 06 January 2004 - 01:56 PM

Burnt,
I've also thought first contact would be 'mind to mind'. Other worlds are going to have other energy systems. It's conceited of humans to think other civilizations would have hydroelectric dams, power grids, and 120V outlets in every room. Thus, the equipment that runs on our power systems would be useless to 'contact' another species who had developed an entirely different energy system. 500 years ago we didn't have steam engines. Two hundred years ago we didn't have 'usable' electricity. 100 years ago, nobody had heard the term 'nuclear power'. How on earth(pun) can we expect any other civilization out there to hear whatever 'drum' our current technology creates? So we're talking about communicating with species that might be hundreds of light years up (or down) the evolutionary food chain from us. Personally, I think 'mind to mind' might just be the ice breaker.

#55 banjojo

banjojo

    Mycotopiate

  • Expired Member
  • 340 posts

Posted 06 January 2004 - 02:25 PM

considering the immense cost of space travel, and the availability of new technologies like solar and wind energy and other renewable energies. Not only does it seem easier but it would be cheaper to federaly fund renewable energy technologies, rather than ravaging the planet to accumulate resources to built huge space ships.

#56 Guest_roo_*

Guest_roo_*
  • Guest

Posted 06 January 2004 - 02:46 PM

That makes sense banjojo, I just wonder what we could have done if we would not have had the cold war. It would have been cool to put all of that money into a safe clean fusion based power system. Imagine what the world would be like today? It would be cool having a small box in my basement to power everything in my house that ran on water. No power lines and no one fighting over oil.

#57 banjojo

banjojo

    Mycotopiate

  • Expired Member
  • 340 posts

Posted 06 January 2004 - 02:51 PM

Well we are coming close, we can store energy in water, or hydrogen cells we call them. But they need to be accompanied by clean ways to generate electricity.

#58 ctw_cowboy

ctw_cowboy

    Mycophiliac

  • Expired Member
  • 11 posts

Posted 06 January 2004 - 08:11 PM

My son posed a question to me today which was left unanswered because I just don't know.

He asked me what would happen if we travelled outside the universe - past it. I answered that it wasn't possible. I said you can't go somewhere that doesn't exist. My assumption is that since there is not only nothing outside the universe but also there is not even a possibilty for something (and therefore nothing) beyond the universe then obviously one cannot travel into impossibility.

His next question was, 'Then what happens when you reach the edge of the universe and try going further'?

Any ideas, any conceptions?

#59 Guest_roo_*

Guest_roo_*
  • Guest

Posted 06 January 2004 - 08:18 PM

You would end up on the other side of the universe. You are just as much a part of the universe as everything else, I would not think you could leave it. Anyway you could be burned to a crisp as the fires of the "big bang" burn on the edges of the universe! One might think you would be "dematerialized" also. One way or the other it sounds like a long trip man.

#60 Guest_myco_*

Guest_myco_*
  • Guest

Posted 06 January 2004 - 09:03 PM

ctw cowboy , see also :
http://www.bbc.co.uk... unitrans.shtml
'we' always assumed there is only this universe , hinduism if i remember well had a theory very similar to the parallel universes
these are conclusions based on calculations from the top of astronomers so not exactly fairytales although they may look like
science's findings are getting wilder than our imagination imo
take only the fact that everything that exists is formed of 99,99 % emptyness (emptyness inside the atoms ,emptyness inside the quarks), no wonder they said 'everything is maya' an illusion setup by our senses




Like Mycotopia? Become a member today!