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Suzie suspects psuedo-science stagnates spectacular dissssss-covery


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#21 CatsAndBats

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Posted 03 December 2014 - 09:16 PM

Well Sally is wondering where the experiments that adhere to the scientific method are by the 'topians that are screaming for it's strict implementation? She doesn't see them. 
Sally thinks that people should lead by example as opposed to just giving self-righteous verbal "spankings". 


Edited by catattack, 03 December 2014 - 09:18 PM.

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#22 hyphaenation

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Posted 03 December 2014 - 09:21 PM

What's your definition of scientific method Sally ... I mean Cat ? Do tell.



#23 CatsAndBats

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Posted 03 December 2014 - 09:35 PM

To imply that MY definition (or Sally's lol) of what the scientific method is, is a disservice to the actual scientific method. The first time and the last time I posted in this forum it was called mycolab, by one of the founders, and it did not have the rigid constraints that cycle put forth at the beginning of this thread. The only rules were, pictures, details, and to keep an open mind while having fun. I am of the opinion that all of the threads followed those loosely laid out guidelines.



#24 hyphaenation

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Posted 03 December 2014 - 09:39 PM

He's just one person making an opinion. Other people including yourself posted in mycolab and I saw a lot of people being supportive. If someone floats an opinion in an experimental thread it doesn't mean they are trying to dissuade you from continuing. That's just my opinion. 

 

The most important thing is to show the grow right through failure and/or success.

 

Mycolab is a brand new thing here. For years and eons we just made grow threads and tried new things & posted. Now we wanted to try something new and have an area for out-of-the-box,  untried , new ways of growing. I wouldn't boycott it because of the opinions of a few.  I'll have to read back on your threads in mycolab ... did you finish any experimental grows from beginning to end? If not , i'm wondering why. People we're/are interested.


Edited by hyphaenation, 03 December 2014 - 09:45 PM.

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#25 CatsAndBats

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Posted 03 December 2014 - 09:49 PM

Fair enough. I can only speak for myself, so the majority of my grows in mycolab just aren't finished. The thing is, dude who started 'unsterilized rye grain' did not adhere to the scientific method, but I still read all of his posts, because they were INTERESTING. If one were to post such an obvious verbal scalding (albeit an opinion) then I am of the opinion that he/she should lead by example which is much more difficult than just saying how things "should be". 



#26 roscoe

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Posted 03 December 2014 - 11:45 PM

 

Well Sally is wondering where the experiments that adhere to the scientific method are by the 'topians that are screaming for it's strict implementation? She doesn't see them. 
Sally thinks that people should lead by example as opposed to just giving self-righteous verbal "spankings".

 

Screaming? 

 

Who's screaming?

 

If you think I am screaming (Or is this more hyperbole?) then you must feel picked on.  Well your not being picked on, so lets not make this about you.

 

You are right I do not have any "experiments" posted here at Topia.  But neither am I making extraordinary claims about XYZ.  So I need not post a thread to prove that XYZ works the way I say it does.

 

Or do I?

 

Or is it that you think I do not have the chops to speak on mushroom cultivation? 

 

The reason for this thread was to add my opinion as to the focus of this forum.  If we want to call it a lab, and say we are doing experiments that will be peer reviewed, then we should act accordingly.  It was not meant as a slam or a personal attack on anyone, I just want to hold the bar at a level that will be respected.

 

Without holding the bar high we leave the door open to an anne halonium type circle-jerk (To be clear I am not saying her methods were shit or not, we just never got proof of anything and we all lost valuable time out of our lives). Which benefits no one and makes this site a laughing stock in the OMC.  I certainly do not want that to happen since I think the work done here is VERY important. 

 

To me it sounds like some members want different things from this forum, I personally think that there should be other forums made to handle wacky grow stuffs that do not fit into the category of actual science.  I think that a forum dedicated to wackiness is a great idea but the two should not mix or it will be a real bitch to moderate as well as sift through for the information that one is looking for.  Having the edible grows lumped into the magic forum, or any of the twilight zone stuff bleeding into other forums comes to mind.


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#27 wharfrat

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Posted 04 December 2014 - 12:01 AM

for some reason i smell "67" and in my book you are not a man of you word! :bat:



#28 TurkeyRanch

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Posted 04 December 2014 - 12:22 AM

Everyone play nice. . . .

Without holding the bar high we leave the door open to an anne halonium type circle-jerk (To be clear I am not saying her methods were shit or not, we just never got proof of anything and we all lost valuable time out of our lives). Which benefits no one and makes this site a laughing stock in the OMC. I certainly do not want that to happen since I think the work done here is VERY important.

To me it sounds like some members want different things from this forum, I personally think that there should be other forums made to handle wacky grow stuffs that do not fit into the category of actual science. I think that a forum dedicated to wackiness is a great idea but the two should not mix or it will be a real bitch to moderate as well as sift through for the information that one is looking for. Having the edible grows lumped into the magic forum, or any of the twilight zone stuff bleeding into other forums comes to mind.


This. We will outline the rules for the forum shortly. We don't want to have a repeat of that kind of circle jerk again, I agree, and that is why I am all for making two forums, one for whacky experimental stuff, a safe place to experiment, and also another scientific methods based sub forum for real honest science. If members want to start espousing funny ideas, let them do it in the experiment forum, but keep it there.

If members want to take their funny ideas and prove they work scientifically and release it as something that "works" they can post an actual scientific experiment with full disclosures on methods and get it peer reviewed before advising other people (new growers) to do it.

Catattack, nobody is picking on you, I hope. Lots of us here are scientists at heart, and are prone to asking lots of questions.

Everyone be nice. This is an important discussion that can help us figure out exactly what we should do with this Myco Lab forum, but only if we are civil to each other.

Ok!

Edited by TurkeyRanch, 04 December 2014 - 12:33 AM.

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#29 coorsmikey

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Posted 04 December 2014 - 12:27 AM

for some reason i smell "67" and in my book you are not a man of you word! :bat:


I am lost on this comment, did I miss something or maybe a post was deleted that I was not able to see? I thought this thread is full of a lot of good opinions being shared with a lot of respect. I have not noticed any demanding temper tantrums or anyone trying to push the staff's buttons. That is what comes to mind when I see "67" as quoted. I am just curious.

Edited by coorsmikey, 04 December 2014 - 12:32 AM.


#30 TurkeyRanch

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Posted 04 December 2014 - 12:32 AM

Coors, 67 is an old member who got banned. Wharf is saying he suspects catattack may not be who they say they are.

#31 coorsmikey

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Posted 04 December 2014 - 12:45 AM

Thanks TR, I remember "67". I guess I was knocked off guard cuz I don't see any "67" in catattack.

@ catattack. Sorry if any my posts made you feel if you were being picked on, if anything I posted bothered please just know nothing was not directed at you. I just have a passion to see " Myco Lab" evolve and this thread is a good opportunity to share ideas.


@ everyone participating.... Lot of great ideas, Thanks,

Edited by coorsmikey, 04 December 2014 - 01:02 AM.

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#32 wharfrat

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Posted 04 December 2014 - 01:15 AM

sorry, there was just something there that struck a chord.. i am probably wrong, i apologize if i am.. I was burned by the "man of his word" so i'm leary


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#33 coorsmikey

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Posted 04 December 2014 - 02:16 AM

I like the idea of two forums, one for experimenting and the other for more advanced teks, I didn't speak up because I figured the response would be, "we already have two forums." Magic and Myco lab. If another forum was created, what would become of the Magic forum? Would it just be another "General Discussions?"

#34 TurkeyRanch

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Posted 04 December 2014 - 02:36 AM

This is all theoretical of course, but in my mind it would work like this:

Well, the other forum would be for people that want to play, but don't feel like conducting a formal experiment. Magic forum would continue as normal. Teks in the experimental forum would be contained to there, if you claim that you grew mushrooms on unpasteurized cat shit and miracle grow, and won't bone up proof or specifics, discussion outside of the experimental forum would be discouraged, ie you can't tell noobs that it works in the other forums, it would be considered "bad or misleading advice", and moderated. We won't be having another Annie H fiasco here.

If you can prove it with ratios, measures, and pics, and someone else can too, then so be it, and the tek gets free reign.

I am super tired, so I hope I am making sense.

Edited by TurkeyRanch, 04 December 2014 - 02:40 AM.


#35 CatsAndBats

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Posted 04 December 2014 - 11:13 AM

Firstly, I am not a banned member (yet), I am myself.

 

Secondly, I do not feel picked on, if anything, I feel as if blackdust was being picked on.

 

Thirdly rules are stated not implied, In the (loosely) written rules the Scientific Method was never mentioned but 'have fun and keep an open mind' were, and if they were framed or written differently this thread would be a moot point.

 

Finally, I just think that it is much easier to criticize as someone is laying it out there, and anyone can do that. Coming up with an experiment with all of the controls, the hypothesis, the detailed log etc and showing people what you mean is a more positive approach because it puts the critic in the same position to be scrutinized by his/her peers. 

 

Either way I love this site, but it is a forum. and yes hyperbole.

 

Everyones favorite mycophobic,

Cat

 

 

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#36 Microbe

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Posted 04 December 2014 - 04:02 PM

This should be a topic of discussion amongst the mods behind closed doors and then a thread needs to be created soliciting feedback from experienced cultivators or mycologist such as cyclenaut is trying to do. But there should.be some structure around it and then rolled back out with very clear expectations. Then any violation need to be enforced as any other would. I see this thread going sideways quickly.
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#37 TurkeyRanch

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Posted 04 December 2014 - 04:23 PM

Microbe, you have a good point. There has been discussion amongst the mods about the rules for the Lab, and I just let this roll for a few reasons, one of them being to see what the community view was on it, garner some additional ideas about what people wanted. Lots of good points made all around, so I feel like it was worth it.

I am going to lock this, because it has served it's purpose.

Thanks for the input everyone!
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