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Liquid Grain Slurry Spawning to Bulk Substrates


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#1 eatyualive

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Posted 09 January 2015 - 09:14 PM

The idea is to use an extremely low spawn ratio in order to achieve 3 goals:

 

1) Colonize the substrate as fast as possible

2) Get good yield as fast as possible

3) Use as little spawn as I can get away without sacrificing too much yield.

 

Background: My first initial idea was that exposing teh inner uncolonized grain would cause a trich farm before or during fruirting. I tried 2 tubs prior to this one. Both were 1 Quart Grain Slurry Tubs to to 10-12 Quarts Volume of Substrate. This spawn ratio was far too low. The Tubs colonized in 14 days and fruited after a week. The results from both tubs totaled only 38 grams. I tossed these out as the results were not as I wanted. Neither tub contaminated after one flush.

 

 

THAI LIPA YAI (TEST CLONE UNCASED TUB):   
                                         
TUB 1 YIELD: TOTAL 450g 17.9 oz

1st: 240 grams 8.5 oz
2nd: 70 grams 2.5oz
3rd: 59g 2oz
4th: 81g 2.9oz


1.jpg

THAI LIPA YAI: WBS 2 QUART GRAIN SLURRY TRIAL #1:UNCASED SUBSTRATE                 
 

Substrate Ratio Per Tub:
1:4.5 Ratio Spawn:substrate

  • 2 Quarts of WBS grain slurry spawn
  • 9 Quarts Volume: 3/4 Brick Coir/ 1 Quarts Verm/ 1 cups gypsum
  • 1.5" Sub Depth

TUB 1 YIELD: TOTAL 105 g 3.75 oz
1st: 73g

2nd: 32g

1st Flush: 13 days from spawn to harvest
2.jpg 3.jpg 4.jpg 5.jpg 6.jpg 4.jpg 3.jpg 7.jpg 8.jpg
2nd Flush: 20 days from spawn to harvest

tlytub7day20.jpg tlytub7day20-2.jpg tlytub7day20-3.jpg

FULL PROCEDURE: GRAIN WAS PREPPED USING FOOMAN'S GRAIN TEK IN 2 HOURS

MADE 40 QUARTS WBS GRAIN JARS FROM 1 PF JAR SLURRY (THAI CLONE FOR A TEST RUN BELOW)

9.jpg 10.jpg 11.jpg 11.jpg 12.jpg

MIXED UP 1 SMALL BRICKS COIR, 2 QUARTS VERM, 1 CUP GYPSUM, 5 QUARTS WATER

EXPANDED THE COIR WITH HOT WATER
13.jpg
DUMPED IN THE DRY VERM AND MIXED IT ALL UP WITH THE COIR. THEN POURED THE GYPSUM THAT WAS MIXED IN WITH 4 CUPS OF THE WARM WATER ON TOP OF THE VERM COIR MIX. THEN MIXED IT ALL UP.
14.jpg

PUT IT IN TURKEY TINS IN THE OVEN FOR 2.5 HOURS. INNER CORE TEMP WAS BROUGHT TO 170 THEN SET FOR 2 HOURS AT THAT TEMP.
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ONCE COOL, FLIPPED THE TURKEY TIN UPSIDE DOWN IN MY PRE LINED TUB.
I TOOK A WIDE MOUTH QUART JAR THAT I RETROFITTED A BLADE ASSEMBLY TO THE LID. I PRESSURE COOKED 3/4 QUART OF WATER AND THE BLADE ASSEMBLY. ONCE COOL, I USED A SHMUVBOX FOR CLEAN WORK AND TOOK THE LID OFF 1 COLONIZED QUART. I POURED HALF OF THE 3/4TH QUART OF WATER INTO THAT COLONIZED QUART AND QUICKLY PUT THE METAL BLADE ON IT. I THEN USED A DRILL BIT ON THE END OF THE BLENDER TO BLEND UP THE JAR. I THEN DID THE SAME THING ON THE 2ND COLONIZED QUART OF GRAIN. I POURED THE REST OF THE WATER INTO THE 2ND QUART, THEN PUT THE SAME LID ON THE 2ND QUART JAR. THEN BLENDED IT WITH THE DRILL BIT. I POURED IT ALL INTO THE SUBSTRATE AND MIXED IT IN THOROUGHLY WITH THE PASTEURIZED SUBSTRATE WITH GLOVES ON.(I DIDN'T TAKE PICS SO IM SUBSTITUTING SOME I HAVE THAT ILLUSTRATE THIS)

BLEND WASN'T QUITE THIS SOUPY BUT DID LOOK SOMEWHAT LIKE THIS.
17.jpg 16.jpg

THE QUART LID IS LIKE THIS.
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NOTES:
Dry yield wasn't anything special just normal. 73 grams. the substrate depth was only about 1.5" thick with no casing. 13 days from spawn to harvest. 23 days from clone to fruit. lighting speed! dunked for a 2nd flush. I plan on attempting this with a 5 tub uncased and 5 tub cased test next to get a wider range of results. The speed goal was met, yield was fair and the grow was extremely easy. I need to do some grow room tweaks to get it dialed in properly. But other than that I plan to try this same 2 Quart slurry with a 3" sub depth and cased tubs. This was an extremely fun experiment. I plan to take it to the next level in the next few months. I'm fairly confident this is repeatable and will get past 3 flushes. I am also confident that the contam ratio won't be any different than any other method I have used. I'd put my money on it. The only obstervation that I believe would cause an issue is if you use larger size grain like Rye berry or Oats. The size of the inner uncolonized grain ends up being too much exposure for contams to set in. The smaller millet or wbs grain doesn't quite get pulverized as much so the grain itself isn't as exposed. In addition, I believe that the drill bit blender wasn't as powerful as my oster is. So it did not break up the grain as much as it would have had I used the oster blender. I think using the hand drill on the oster wide mouth blade attachment is ideal for this method. On my next trial I am going to do a full 3" sub depth with a clone, using 2 Quarts of Grain Slurry while also spawning 1 quart regularly. I will update this thread as things progress.

 

This is a shout out to TV  Casualty who invented this badass method and who gave me inspiration to try all kinds of crazy shit. So my next attempt afrer that will also be to use GS2G Transfer(Grain Slurry To Grain Transfer). This involves using a colonized grain pint jar to slurry more grain jars of wbs as a method to g2g. I am giving it this name for clairty and so I can abbreviate it.

 

Tv Casualty's Slurry In a Hurry Tek


Edited by eatyualive, 18 January 2015 - 10:33 AM.

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#2 eatyualive

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Posted 09 January 2015 - 10:31 PM

This is a 7 Tub Grow using Slurried Spawn prepared by TV's method. A 1/2 pint cake of The thai clone in the original post was used. I blended the brf jar and poured it directly from the jar into quart grain jars. I did not use a lid attachment. 
 
I want to show that this does work with minimal contamination. I have been testing slurries out since TV posted the Slurry in a Hurry tek. So I have put probably more than 5 years of trials into research These Slurry Tubs took approximately 23 Days from Clone to Fruit(3 days pf jar clone colonization, 3 days slurry grain colonization, 3 day spawn run, fruited on day 4, 12 and 13 days to fruit). All 4 cased tubs fruited from spawn to fruit in 12 days. All uncased tubs fruited from spawn to fruit in 13 days. The casings were very thin for this test run at 1/4-1/2" which were substrates used as casing like fahtsters method. ill keep posting results and show everyone that this is consistent, repeatable and it works just fine with minimum contams if you follow proper clean and sterile procedures.

CASED TUBS 12 DAYS SPAWN TO HARVEST
1.jpg 2.jpg 3.jpg 4.jpg

5.jpg 6.jpg 7.jpg 8.jpg

UNCASED TUBS 13 DAYS SPAWN TO HARVEST
9.jpg 10.jpg 11.jpg

12.jpg 13.jpg 14.jpg

Edited by eatyualive, 09 January 2015 - 11:33 PM.

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#3 hyphaenation

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Posted 09 January 2015 - 10:51 PM

Woohoo! Late Christmas present. Classically great material Eats. Love this shit. Mucho inspiring.
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#4 wharfrat

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Posted 09 January 2015 - 10:56 PM

beautiful work my friend..


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#5 eatyualive

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Posted 09 January 2015 - 11:57 PM

I was in the middle of editing the posts. I just finished. I now have to do a few steps at a time save, reopen to edit the thread so that i don't lose the entire thing. i lost it 3 times tonight. spent about 5 hours adding two posts. mulit upload wasn't working either.



#6 roscoe

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Posted 10 January 2015 - 12:48 AM

Great thread Eats!

 

I am big fan of the slurry in a hurry tek (thank you TV), it takes home cultivation to a whole new level.

 

My only complaints (someone should slap me for using that word in this context) about the Slurry in a hurry tek is that it uses a lot of parts and takes a good deal of planning to get everything in place to be able to rock n roll (kind of a wussy problem).  And my biggest complaint is that you end up with more spawn than you can possibly deal with in just a generation or two (another first world problem!) 

 

I think more growers should give this a go, its potential is mind boggling.


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#7 AGAMA

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Posted 10 January 2015 - 08:58 AM

You NEVER cease to amaze me, eats!

Spawn conservation at it's best.

So MUCH from so little.

 

 

(And the EXTRA effort to get the info here,

in usable form, does not go unnoticed.)


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#8 TVCasualty

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Posted 10 January 2015 - 12:11 PM

Well this thread was a pleasant surprise! Great job on those trays and I like what you've done with the blender blades and the lids. That was an area that could've definitely used some improvement and it looks like your approach solved some of the issues that the original blender lids occasionally had with leaks and such. And thanks for the compliments; it makes me feel all warm and fuzzy inside to know that I've contributed in some tangible way to helping people grow more mushrooms in less time since I feel they're among the safest and most-effective tools available for inspiring our society pull its collective head out of it's collective ass while we still got enough time left for it to matter.


Anyway, when I was still working out the kinks in the Slurry Tek I thought about how nice it would be to have a mason jar that was open and threaded on both ends; screw the blades onto one end (that becomes the bottom), fill the rest with BRF/Verm (very loosely-packed), close the top with a lid that has a dispenser nozzle and an inoculation port then PC and inoculate like a conventional BRF jar.

The top lid would have both a capped nozzle (only uncapped when used to dispense slurry) and an injection/inoculation port sealed with silicone ("airport"-style). Inoculate the jar through the port, then when fully colonized inject enough water through the same port to make a slurry, blend it with the already-installed blades, uncap the nozzle and start spawning. Seems like it would work, hope to be in a position to give it a try sometime soon.

I'd even explored cutting two jars in half and then somehow connecting them. After much speculation, the best bet seemed to be a custom-molded tight-fitting silicone sleeve (like the silicone covers for iPods and such). I'm pretty good at moldmaking (and mold growing, unfortunately) and in my estimation it would be tricky to make the mold but not impossible (and probably well-worth the effort). Plus the silicone is autoclavable and reusable if a jar section were to break. I figured the sleeve idea would be easier to make happen than carving a custom carbon-block mold for glass (mainly because I'm not set up for working with molten glass!).
 

So MUCH from so little.


To this day I have yet to max-out the full potential of the Slurry Tek. I always hit other barriers first such as not enough time, not enough materials, not enough bulk pasteurization capacity (and my steam pasteurizer is 28 cubic feet in volume! For comparison a 55-gallon drum is only 7.35 cu. ft.) , not a big enough fruiting room, etc.. So I'm working on ways around some of those other limiting factors now (my myco-R&D work has been real slow and has even stopped completely for long periods over the past few years but as the latest cycle of Chaos continues to settle back down into a period of calmer, saner Order it'll pick right back up again).

Then again, "sane" is relative since it's looking like I might be getting into the snake-venom business real soon. It entails filling a few rooms with "hot" snakes, milking their venom and selling it. Doing that requires a permit that's very hard to acquire but a reptile-breeder friend has one and I can operate under his supervision (it's very lucrative but his wife won't allow hot snakes at his place anymore, probably because of her daughters; they love snakes too, but one is 7 and the other is 11 so I can see her point). I'm also thinking it would be fun to have my myco-lab hidden behind a door made out of reptile cages filled with rattlesnakes, copperheads, and maybe even a cobra or two, bwahahahaha....

But I digress, as usual.

Those trays look awesome; keep up the good work!


Edited by TVCasualty, 10 January 2015 - 12:13 PM.

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#9 CatsAndBats

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Posted 11 January 2015 - 12:39 PM

Wow, truly inspirational. Lot's of great content lately eats..



#10 happy4nic8r

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Posted 11 January 2015 - 03:04 PM

This is excellent. I have been experimenting with slurries, and had varying results, none of them worth a pictorial essay as yet.

 

You have given me some really good ideas, and especially when it comes to quantity and procedure.

 

Yours seems to go really fast, but it's hard to gauge since time seems to crawl at my place, OCD, ADHD, notwithstanding.

 

What's that part about the drill bit and the blender?

 

TV: If you have snakes in your place, you may start to have snake dreams, all the time. 


Edited by happy4nic8r, 11 January 2015 - 03:05 PM.


#11 Microbe

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Posted 13 January 2015 - 11:08 AM

Very inspiring. This is bad ass so thank you for sharing. Would blender shown below work? My only concern is that the container is plastic and im not sure if its PP5 as i have not really looked at in detail. I can tell you after reading this.l thread i tore apart my cabinets and found this contraption within 30 seconds. My wife thought i was trying to catch a mouse lol

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#12 CatsAndBats

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Posted 13 January 2015 - 01:37 PM

This is excellent. I have been experimenting with slurries, and had varying results, none of them worth a pictorial essay as yet.

 

You have given me some really good ideas, and especially when it comes to quantity and procedure.

 

Yours seems to go really fast, but it's hard to gauge since time seems to crawl at my place, OCD, ADHD, notwithstanding.

 

What's that part about the drill bit and the blender?

 

TV: If you have snakes in your place, you may start to have snake dreams, all the time. 

The drill bit/jar/blender assembly is here (also located in eats tek):

 

https://mycotopia.ne...= slurry hurry


Edited by catattack, 13 January 2015 - 01:37 PM.


#13 TurkeyRanch

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Posted 13 January 2015 - 01:39 PM

Awesome Eats. Love it. Thanks for all the work over all the yrs, you keep knocking the ball out of the park.
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#14 happy4nic8r

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Posted 13 January 2015 - 02:22 PM

 

Then again, "sane" is relative since it's looking like I might be getting into the snake-venom business real soon. It entails filling a few rooms with "hot" snakes, milking their venom and selling it. Doing that requires a permit that's very hard to acquire but a reptile-breeder friend has one and I can operate under his supervision (it's very lucrative but his wife won't allow hot snakes at his place anymore, probably because of her daughters; they love snakes too, but one is 7 and the other is 11 so I can see her point). I'm also thinking it would be fun to have my myco-lab hidden behind a door made out of reptile cages filled with rattlesnakes, copperheads, and maybe even a cobra or two, bwahahahaha....

But I digress, as usual.

Those trays look awesome; keep up the good work!

TV. Love the snake idea. I tried it myself when I found a nest of desert rattlers and caught them and took them home, (after accidentally killing the mother mowing the grass). I tried to talk to Stanford cuz I heard they bought them for milking and after a couple of days they called me back and said they only process exotic venom since rattler antivenom can be made synthetically.

 

They also said there was no permit in California for keeping venemous snakes and it was totally illegal to posses and I should immediately turn myself in.

 

Sad end to a long story, but I did have dreams about snakes EVERY night while they were in jars in my room. They make great watch-pets. Nobody snuck up on them, even in glass.



#15 kcmoxtractor

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Posted 17 January 2015 - 01:04 AM

You can really maximize your mycelial mileage using slurry TEKs. The blender
isn't even necessary, and going caveman style stretched it even further! One
tablespoon of grain to inoculate 16 quarts? Yes, please! There was still plenty

of inoculant left over after it was all said and done, probably could have done

another 40-50 jars from that single tablespoon of grain. Using this method-

[Direct Link]


Edited by kcmoxtractor, 17 January 2015 - 12:53 PM.

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#16 roscoe

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Posted 17 January 2015 - 02:06 PM

I like the vid, and the low tek slurry that's pretty slick. 

 

If you are taking your sterilized jars directly from the pressure cooker and putting them right in the schmuve why are you rubbing them all down with ISO? 

 

IME they should remain clean enough even if the top of the pc isn't in the clean air flow.


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#17 CatsAndBats

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Posted 17 January 2015 - 03:10 PM

Why did you not agitate it more? Wouldn't that give you more loose myc to colonize the grain jars? Plus what is the advantage to this as opposed to "milking" a fully colonized grain jar with a syringe?



#18 roscoe

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Posted 17 January 2015 - 03:41 PM

 

Plus what is the advantage to this as opposed to "milking" a fully colonized grain jar with a syringe?

 

I don't mean to talk for KC, but I can tell you it would be next to impossible to add water to a fully colonized WBS jar and have it break off enough myc to be worth it.  A jar of corn is different because there is much more space between the grains and it will break up much nicer. 

 

The space between the grains is key for this to work because they are full of myc jumping from grain to grain, and are vulnerable to being knocked off into the water.



#19 CatsAndBats

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Posted 17 January 2015 - 03:47 PM

 

 

Plus what is the advantage to this as opposed to "milking" a fully colonized grain jar with a syringe?

 

I don't mean to talk for KC, but I can tell you it would be next to impossible to add water to a fully colonized WBS jar and have it break off enough myc to be worth it.  A jar of corn is different because there is much more space between the grains and it will break up much nicer. 

 

The space between the grains is key for this to work because they are full of myc jumping from grain to grain, and are vulnerable to being knocked off into the water.

 

I've moved almost completely to corn.. I only use wbs when I have no popcorn prepped and since I moved to nixtamalized corn, I almost always have plenty of prepped corn surplus... Still cool though!



#20 eatyualive

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Posted 18 January 2015 - 10:21 AM

Very inspiring. This is bad ass so thank you for sharing. Would blender shown below work? My only concern is that the container is plastic and im not sure if its PP5 as i have not really looked at in detail. I can tell you after reading this.l thread i tore apart my cabinets and found this contraption within 30 seconds. My wife thought i was trying to catch a mouse lol

My only concern is that the container is plastic and im not sure if its PP5 as i have not really looked at in detail. I can tell you after reading this.l thread i tore apart my cabinets and found this contraption within 30 seconds. My wife thought i was trying to catch a mouse lol

 

im worried this will melt when you pressure cook unless you can verify it is pp5. if you  get an oster blender. you can simply use the base. and you don't ned the black plastic part. you can hold the 1/2 pint or pint regular mouth jar onto the blender base with your hand as you blend. now, you could boil it with boiling water before use. if your using this for grain transfer id be as sterile as possible and not use it for that purpose. if your simply spawning to a bulk substrate directly with a slurry, then it may work as you don't have to be sterile when you spawn.

as far as the video there are a few things that bothered me. the unwrapping of the lid and setting the inside part face down on top of an unsterile lid. i would have loosened the lid on the slurry, then in one clean motion unwrapped that foil and held it at the top by the foil while removing the other lid and placing that lid on the jar. that way you minimize exposure of the unwrapped sterile lid. you then blend after that or shake. i would likely skip the entire lid attachment there and pour that water directly into the jars. you could use the lid that you pced with that jar. keep it on. and anytime your about to transfer, lift both lids(one with each hand), make the transfer, then close the lids quickly. i feel that the lid attachment i have gotten away without using the entire time ive done slurries so it only adds a step for me. it may help you get the feel for the correct volume your adding to the jars. i judge by eye about a tablespoon per jar. maybe even less than that. and if your going to use pint grain jars you might want to reduce that by half.

 

now there are also some things i like about the video. if i can get away with swirling the jar like a GLC without blending then i could simply use this as a way of spawning bulk substrates. what i mean is, pressure cook a few extra quarts of water before you spawn. then pour about 1/4 quart of water into each quart you spawn and shake it up nice and good. then you can easily pour that directly into your substrate with the spawn. i think that would help speed things up normally on a regular spawned tub that you use lets say 5 quarts of spawn with. im doing this tonight. you gave me some good ideas.

im just going to pour water into my slurry quarts next and shake them up then spoon them out and spawn normally. that seems easy enough and it should speed things up faster. people on the shroomery dunk their grains. but then dump out all that mycelia water which seems to be a waste. that can act as inoculant to your bulk subs and actually make things go much faster. this is something im going to mess with.

here are some slurrye WBS Grain Jars that were blended up and poured directly into more quart jars. I didn't quite shake up the quart enough. but, the pints were quick. just make sure you don't pour too much slurry into the smaller pint jars if you use those. you can overdo it easily.

how long did those slurried quarts take to colonize with the shaken slurry like that? is it 3 days or longer?

 

gs2gslurry.jpg gs2gslurry2.jpg gs2gslurry3.jpg

 

ive also updated the op with the 2nd flush from the grain slurry to bulk substrate.
 


Edited by eatyualive, 18 January 2015 - 11:03 AM.

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