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Liquid Grain Slurry Spawning to Bulk Substrates


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#21 eatyualive

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Posted 18 January 2015 - 10:51 AM

 

 

Plus what is the advantage to this as opposed to "milking" a fully colonized grain jar with a syringe?

 

I don't mean to talk for KC, but I can tell you it would be next to impossible to add water to a fully colonized WBS jar and have it break off enough myc to be worth it.  A jar of corn is different because there is much more space between the grains and it will break up much nicer. 

 

The space between the grains is key for this to work because they are full of myc jumping from grain to grain, and are vulnerable to being knocked off into the water.

 

its not impossible thats what i did in my last post. but make sure you use a phonebook to break up the jar prior to blending it up. what i did was use a make shift wide mouth blender attachment. i then pressure cooked 1/2 quart of water. i broke up the grain. then quickly took the lid off that quart and replaced it with my sterile wide mouth blade attachment and then blended it up enough to pour a little into a slurry. so what ive done now is make pint jars of wbs so that i can use my regular mouth attachment and use that one pint for 100 quarts or more. i feel it would easily do 150 quart jars from that one grain slurry pint. as far as popcorn, your right, it will work better because the grain size but if you blend the popcorn with a lower volume of water it can turn into a mudlike consistency and expose inner grain. id use a higher volume of water ratio if you were doing it with the corn grain. a guy at shroomery blended his oat grain with a 2:1 grain to water ratio and it turned into a mud like consistency. he had to then spoon out the mud slurry into his bulk substrate. so i think the smaller wbs particle size works well with the blended grain compared to the oats. if your using the oats or bigger grain size id go a litlte higher volume of water to grain.

 

the regular mouth attachment doesn't fit on the oster base. so, you can take a drill bit and stick it in the end of the blade attachment and have a mild blend. it doesn't really even break up the grain that much but more loosens the mycelia from the grain.

 

yeah i know its a sloppy job but it does the trick.

SLURRYLID2.jpg SLURRYLID1.jpg


Edited by eatyualive, 18 January 2015 - 11:11 AM.

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#22 happy4nic8r

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Posted 18 January 2015 - 01:07 PM

This totally explains what my question was, the bases of the blender don't fit the larger jars.....

 

I wish I had my old chain saw blender, it had a larger base, probably metric or something so it wouldn't fit either,

 

Maybe a router or a 4" grinder would speed things up a little. Drill motor is too slow.



#23 Microbe

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Posted 18 January 2015 - 01:22 PM

Hey Eats, i was wondering why a slurry inoculation colonizes so much quicker then lets say GLC or myc water? One of your posts you had mentioned you dumpped half of the 3/4 of water into a quart size grain jar which is approximately 350 ml of water. Why wouldnt inoculating with mycelium water produce similar results? Lets say extracted 350 ml of myc water into 6 60 cc syringes couldnt i just inoculate a substrate with that. The water content being added would be the same if not less because when the grains are blended it would release the water that was stored in the grain from hydration process.im certain i wont be able to extract all the mycelium that would be equivalent to pouring a slurry and when were talking aboit mycelium and microscopic organisms, this could be the diffrence. Hypothetically speaking, lets say i am able to get all the myc out, what would be the reason why a myc water inoculation would not colonize as quick? Maybe the decrease in nutes because no grain is being added to the substrates? If that was the case then i would think that one could supplement prior to steralizing the water with gypsum, sulfur, vegetable oil, dextrose,
or any kind of other ingredients that have nutritional value for mycelium.

Im really wanting to attempt a project here and want to go back to a idea i had when i first started cultivating. An idea that was geared for cultivating edibles commercially small scale. I originally thought why not modify a tank sprayer so that a LC could be made in it and then just spray the substrate. I was told that a similar method had been tried but it didnt work very well because it through off water content. I dont use sugar LC anymore but i love using GLC.

So here is what im thinking now, assuming i can figure out the nutrient supplementation, as i dont think water content is diffrent then a slurry and if it is then a substrate can be prepared so that water ratios are optimal, i want to take a tank sprayer and modify it by cutting out 4 1" strips running the entire length of the sprayer and equally spaced around the diameter then weld high impact plexiglass over the slits that were cut so that i can see inside the tank sprayer and see whats going on without having to open the lid which would still only allow a visual of the top. I would also need to find away to filter the air when pressurizing the tank sprayer so that i could get more mileage out the glc and let in recover so that it could be used again. Also being able to filter the air when pumping the sprayer up would allow me to introduce some fresh air in the event i need to do so even though i think there will be enough air in there to colonize the container.

So i will make this glc by prepping grains as usual and when i go to fill the container it would be no diffrent then conducting g2g. If i were using a 2 gallon tank sprayer, i have many as i own and operat a Pest Control Biz for the time being, i would put 5 quarts of steralized grain and 2 quarts of grain spawn. Let it colonize and then fill with steralized water, pump it up and spray some substrate while turning it.

Heck maybe take Hypheanation's milking tek and just pour a few gallons into a tank sprayer and inoculate some substrate that way. Either way there are less nutes in the absence of grain but im not concerned about yields right away as much as i am with speed and vigour.

What do you think Eats? Or anyone else who read through all that ^ as i know it was probably brutal. It may seem to be a little off topic and seems to be about GLC and modified tank sprayers but it wasnt intended to be. Im just want to know what makes a grain slurry more effective then myc water? I may have answered my own question when i suggested nutes.

I will anxiously be waiting anyones response and tank you in advance.

Edited by Microbe77, 18 January 2015 - 01:31 PM.


#24 kcmoxtractor

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Posted 18 January 2015 - 07:04 PM

cyclenaut, on 17 Jan 2015 - 2:06 PM, said:

I like the vid, and the low tek slurry that's pretty slick.

If you are taking your sterilized jars directly from the pressure cooker and putting them right in the schmuve why are you rubbing them all down with ISO?

IME they should remain clean enough even if the top of the pc isn't in the clean air flow.

the pressure cooker had been sitting in an old moldy house for a couple days
prior to the transfers, and i wanted to be sure. when I moved them from the

stove the weight slipped and let some air in. IME extra anal on clean procedure
is better than being lax about it.
 

catattack, on 17 Jan 2015 - 3:10 PM, said:

Why did you not agitate it more? Wouldn't that give you more loose myc to colonize the grain jars? Plus what is the advantage to this as opposed to "milking" a fully colonized grain jar with a syringe?


because agitation is not what i'm using to loosen the myc from the grains, i'm using
a fork. i could have done a better job breaking it up with the fork, but they all colonized
just fine with 0 contamination. i could ask you the same thing about milking a jar with
a syringe, what is the advantage? i have a tremor disorder, on bad days i can't even
eat soup. trying to milk a jar with a syringe would be next to impossible on those days.
distributing the slurry jar to jar with the dispenser nozzle is easy, and if i am having a
bad shakes day i can just rest the slurry jar on the rim of the recipient jar and wait for
it to do its thing.

i use wbs cakes for spawn, i don't like all the waste water generated from prepping
corn. when i used a blender to make WBS slurry in the past, the blender didn't even
make it through two dozen jars before the motor shit out on me. guess it's just too
dense and the motor has to work too hard.

 

 

I would respond to eats, but copy and paste has stopped working halfway through

this message.


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#25 CatsAndBats

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Posted 18 January 2015 - 07:18 PM

You are "greener" than me, I mean I'm not clubbing baby seals over here, but I probably use more water than I should, I just love how clean the popcorn looks. Plus, we do use the wbs for feeding birds lol.


Edited by catattack, 18 January 2015 - 07:19 PM.


#26 MNTearMushieHUNTER26

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Posted 22 January 2015 - 01:04 PM

Is a viable slurry able to be made from dried specimens, or is a fresh sample necessary?  This technique would eliminate some supplies I don't currently have on hand and allow me to try my hand sooner then later.  


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#27 happy4nic8r

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Posted 22 January 2015 - 01:18 PM

I am just about to try that very thing, and was re=reading this post cuz the grain prep and noc is what I'm going to attempt.

 

I'm going to shoot some, pour some slurry in some, and shoot spores in some, (as a control)

 

The dried ones I'm going to blend, after soaking 1 hr in warm water.

 

Who knows where they have been. Spores aren't all that clean anyway, its kind of a race.



#28 CatsAndBats

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Posted 22 January 2015 - 01:22 PM

From what I understand it can be done... I think @microbe77 mentioned it, I can be wrong.

#29 happy4nic8r

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Posted 22 January 2015 - 03:47 PM

I kind of like things that don't need a bunch of extra help. 

 

It's like going out and always ordering something off the menu.

 

I say that, but really I love getting my butt kicked by something I thought I could cut a corner...

 

It teaches you how to do better than the best you can.

 

And here's the reward.

 

Shit, no pics??



#30 TVCasualty

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Posted 24 January 2015 - 01:02 PM

i was wondering why a slurry inoculation colonizes so much quicker then lets say GLC or myc water?


The presence of exponentially-more mycelium. Consider how much of a harvest you'd get off a BRF or WBS jar done PF Tek style vs. the amount of mycelium present in myc water or a GLC; if you blend up a fully-colonized BRF or WBS jar you'll have the same amount of mycelium available for spawning to whole grain.

In a colonized BRF jar (the only kind I use for this) all the bits of rice flour are present in the slurry and they are at least partially colonized (meaning mycelium has grown into the bits of rice, not just on the surface) so each chunk of rice quickly recovers after inoculation and starts projecting a sphere of new mycelial growth around itself (sort of like a 3-D petri dish).

 

That mycelium is already anchored to a source of food and water so it gets right back to growing full-speed ahead the moment it's done being blended. And then there's all the loose mycelium floating in the water (on top of the colonized rice bits). With LC's and myc water all you get is the mycelium that's floating around in the water.

 

I would also need to find away to filter the air when pressurizing the tank sprayer

 

For introducing sterile air into a pressure vessel like an air tank, get some of these in-line HEPA-rated air filters:
 

gas_filter.jpg

 

 

They are available from most scientific supply companies and some brewery supply companies (there are many different configurations and some can handle liquids, and larger ones can handle higher air flow).

 

Sprayers are very prone to clogging and modified pressure vessels are very prone to failing (Murphy's Law is brutal whenever elevated pressures are involved) plus the modifications -even when successful- tend to make sterilization of the vessel much harder due to the micro-pores and cracks and such that chemicals won't be able to penetrate and sterilize. These pores and cracks form from the cuts made to modify it and the incidental scratches that inevitably occur on the interior finish, as well as the microscopically-rough surface of the globs of cured epoxy or whatever was used to bond and seal the modifications.

 

That's why instructions for home-brewing beer stress the need for new, clean, un-scratched buckets as fermentation vessels. Once a surface is scratched or pitted the only way to sterilize it is with dry steam (pressure cooker), ethylene gas (good luck getting some and be real careful if you do) or ionizing radiation (screw that; time for a new bucket...).

 

 

Some people are quick to point out how they did something contrary to what I just wrote and were very successful, but I can guarantee that their success won't last. What I'm after for myself and what I recommend to others are the procedures and methods that don't depend on luck to work and that can be reliably and successfully repeated indefinitely.

 

Since people have been trying to speed up colonization of mushroom substrates since the late-17th Century (at least), it seems likely that if spraying bulk substrates worked to achieve that goal then it would be in widespread use today. And it might even work to an extent but in a commercial context "failure" might entail requiring too much/too costly maintenance, negating it's advantages.


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#31 Soliver

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Posted 28 May 2015 - 07:27 PM

I'm poking around, and figure I'd be best just putting this out there & see if anyone bites ...

 

Anyone tried pf slurry mixed into a bulk sub?

 

I have a sack of black kow and some jars.  I'd like to bridge the two at some point - don't mind experimenting and failing (it's what I'm best at) ... slurry is just sooo sexxy, it was my first thought.

 

Anyone?

 

Thanks,

 

:)

 

soliver



#32 happy4nic8r

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Posted 28 May 2015 - 08:22 PM

I'm poking around, and figure I'd be best just putting this out there & see if anyone bites ...

 

Anyone tried pf slurry mixed into a bulk sub?

 

I have a sack of black kow and some jars.  I'd like to bridge the two at some point - don't mind experimenting and failing (it's what I'm best at) ... slurry is just sooo sexxy, it was my first thought.

 

Anyone?

 

Thanks,

 

:)

 

soliver

I've tried it a few times, in grains, in brf cakes, (cannibal run), into liquid culture, and directly on to shredded paper in shoe boxes.

 

I think that in order to get the cakes to blend, you have to add a lot of water that gets sucked up into the slurry and you end up with something too hot and wet to beat out the contaminations.

 

that was my experience with the blender. just wasted some good cakes. My experience only, I'm seeing that almost anything is possible.

 

It does go off fast. I probably could have been more sterile, but the grains especially seemed to go sour with too much moisture. I put less in some, and they just never happened.


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#33 Soliver

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Posted 30 May 2015 - 01:47 PM

 

I'm poking around, and figure I'd be best just putting this out there & see if anyone bites ...

 

Anyone tried pf slurry mixed into a bulk sub?

 

I have a sack of black kow and some jars.  I'd like to bridge the two at some point - don't mind experimenting and failing (it's what I'm best at) ... slurry is just sooo sexxy, it was my first thought.

 

Anyone?

 

Thanks,

 

:)

 

soliver

I've tried it a few times, in grains, in brf cakes, (cannibal run), into liquid culture, and directly on to shredded paper in shoe boxes.

 

I think that in order to get the cakes to blend, you have to add a lot of water that gets sucked up into the slurry and you end up with something too hot and wet to beat out the contaminations.

 

that was my experience with the blender. just wasted some good cakes. My experience only, I'm seeing that almost anything is possible.

 

It does go off fast. I probably could have been more sterile, but the grains especially seemed to go sour with too much moisture. I put less in some, and they just never happened.

 

 

Hmm ... maybe I'll scale down my concept and do the old cake crumble, mix with sub & toss in the cooler...

 

Per usual, I need either more time or fewer hobbies, but this is one I really can't ditch - it keeps me (somewhat) sane ..  :)

 

soliver


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#34 happy4nic8r

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Posted 30 May 2015 - 01:55 PM

True that Soliver. I made it through a winter and was actually getting more into what I was doing than what I was supposed to be doing now that it's spring.


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#35 Soliver

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Posted 30 May 2015 - 02:03 PM

True that Soliver. I made it through a winter and was actually getting more into what I was doing than what I was supposed to be doing now that it's spring.

 

Right?  Firewood season's at an end, but now it's yard work ... thought I had a weekend free & clear (moron) but realized I'm supposed to be constructing a laundry line for the woman without having to buy anything.  Metal posts & wood cross pieces - I'll figure something out I suppose ... Life was easier when I had nothing to maintain or lose, but then again, perhaps it was hollow and empty (doubtful?) ... Either way, it is what it is - back to multi-tasking = drinking beer while staring at the pile of stuff I've deposited onto the yard as if some majik force will join it all together & dig the holes & pour the concrete I don't have ...

 

:)

 

soliver



#36 happy4nic8r

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Posted 30 May 2015 - 02:15 PM

I quit with the concrete since a lot of my work ends up being temporary, I just put sand and small rocks down the holes and tamp them in.

 

I'm still trying to build a still with no real parts. That's probably going to be next winter.



#37 Soliver

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Posted 30 May 2015 - 07:38 PM

I quit with the concrete since a lot of my work ends up being temporary, I just put sand and small rocks down the holes and tamp them in.

 

I'm still trying to build a still with no real parts. That's probably going to be next winter.

 

Stills are really easy, especially if you're not set on a reflux column.  The only part you really can't skimp on is copper tubing.  Fortunately, my property came with dozens of feet of the stuff buried out in a depression-pile in the back ...  :)



#38 happy4nic8r

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Posted 30 May 2015 - 08:46 PM

 

I quit with the concrete since a lot of my work ends up being temporary, I just put sand and small rocks down the holes and tamp them in.

 

I'm still trying to build a still with no real parts. That's probably going to be next winter.

 

Stills are really easy, especially if you're not set on a reflux column.  The only part you really can't skimp on is copper tubing.  Fortunately, my property came with dozens of feet of the stuff buried out in a depression-pile in the back ...  :)

 

I bet they are, especially if you have one to pattern after. I am slowly searching the scrap piles for a keg, and then some welding tanks to replace the ones I had to leave behind on my last move.

 

I have the perfect place where nobody ever comes to do this, and it is something I have wanted to do for many years since I did a small scale kitchen cook with lab glassware.

 

I had a water cooled condenser and it got plugged up when it boiled over and blew up on me, burnt the fuck out of one side of my body. I never say never, and I do know how to make some good mash. One day.

 

Oh, of course I was on acid, and got a ride 40 miles to emergency in rush hour traffic in a VW bus that went about 20 mph top speed.

 

See what I did to this thread, liquid grain slurry, and I'm off talking shine. Sorry, EatuAlive, back to the normally scheduled programming.



#39 Mycomaniac2007

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Posted 04 June 2015 - 12:38 AM

Eatyoualive and I think tv has a slurry thing they've done straight to bulk.. I know eatyou has with great results. Its probably right at the top of the magic mushrooms page




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