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Where's all the science at?

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#81 coorsmikey



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Posted 03 January 2017 - 09:59 PM

Here's something...

So the partition coefficient(logP) of psilo is -0.14
The logP of ethanol is -0.16
Which means that the molecules fit very well with each other and ethanol is a good solvent to use as long as the water content is minimal.
I am wondering what the most prevalent isomer that occurs in cubensis is so that I can obtain that isomer at the right pH. Each isomer or microspecies will migrate to the solvent at a different pH. Therefor, for all we know, we could only be extracting the least prevalent isomer that occurs in the strain and only obtain a fraction of the actual content of all the psilo.
In order to calculate the difference in isomeric content one must start from a high ionization point (low pH value) of below pH1 then add solvent and pull. In another vessel one would then start with pH4 then add solvent and pull. One would then do the same with the pH values of 8 & 12, each time using fresh product and unused solvent. After the solvent from each extraction is evaporated, each final result is then weighed. The greatest weight indicates the most prevalent isomer and also what pH is best for the extraction of that particular strain.
This is the essence of my question. I am surprised no one thought of this already since it is such a rudimentary principle in chemical extractions. I guess I'll just have to perform the measurements myself and let you guys know.
Side note, this is not a "moot" point because if someone thought that "oh, need not be greedy, you're getting enough out of just adding everclear to the stuff!".... that person would just be wasting to the rest of the psilo that mother nature intended for us!
Love and jingles...
-mushroom cat

Start this study up and post your findings in "Mad scientists". I am eager to move something over to here. I would like to compare it to the results of doing and Alcohol extraction. Then with the same material an extraction at pH 4, with a simple water extraction to end it. 3 extraction from the same batch.
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#82 mushroom_cat


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Posted 04 January 2017 - 03:24 AM

Will definitely do so, thank you for the positive suggestions!

I will perform the experiment hopefully sooner than later.... there ARE a lot of things on my plate right now but it WILL be the first thing I do before I actually start a regularly scheduled extraction process.... obviously.

The experiment that I will post will be crude and cut throat, though it WILL follow the scientific format method.

I believe that chromatography will be quite useless in this case since we are dealing with differentiating isomers.... not different species. Color would be nigh impossible to discern, considering the spectrum is only augmented by, for example, a single hydroxide.

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#83 BushwickBill



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Posted 29 January 2017 - 04:06 PM

Isomers of what exactly?  Are you talking protonation states of psilocybin/psilocin?  If so then it should be fairly straightforward to calculate (using the Ka/pKa) which species predominates in an extraction medium of a given pH.  What does protonation state matter for the efficiency of the extraction though?  You'd also be changing the other stuff you pull in an extraction so quantifying anything to do with psiloc(yb)in will be very hard to do without a good quantitative TLC assay at an absolute minimum.  Plus accounting for the variance in production from one fruit body to another, etc etc.  


That said..UV absorbance could work to differentiate protonation state of the phenol, TLC could potentially work as well since the deprotonated species should migrate less.  Pure ethanol is waaaaayy too polar for a TLC solvent, I'd start with 5-10% methanol in DCM or something like 30% ethyl acetate in hexane.

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