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Using tryptophan to increase alkaloids


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#21 Soliver

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Posted 08 April 2015 - 03:11 PM

Ya know ...

 

Why DON'T more of us grow woodlover?  

 

Wood's pretty easy to come by compared to BRF & verm ... are they difficult to fruit or something? 

 

I gotta put that on my list ...

 

thanks TV

 

:)

 

soliver



#22 TurkeyRanch

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Posted 08 April 2015 - 06:40 PM

I think TurkeyRanch has it ...
 
Results are questionable unless you're working with at least a single culture - otherwise, it's all too subjective and dependent on variables.
 
It's been an ongoing debate whether or not this would work - It'd be cool if someone really hit the research, but - unfortunately - it's often just easier to eat more shrooms  :)
 
soliver


I tried it, not sure if you were still around then or if you were already MIA. I used phalaris arundinacea as a sub component, and it seemed to work pretty dang well, as evidenced by me dosing a friend in a blind test.

Original thread
https://mycotopia.ne...raw-experiment/

Update with results
https://mycotopia.ne...dinacea-update/
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#23 Headinthehills

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Posted 09 April 2015 - 06:14 AM

I've heard from a few people they don't think this will work and I've only found one study backing my theory up. But I have an inquiring mind, so I figured I'd give this a shot. I have a decent job, so losing $20 in the name of science is totally worth it. If it works, I get more potent mushrooms. If not, I got a new sleeping supplement at the health food store. Right? Right.
I am planning on doing a pan grow soon. I'd love to do some azures but it's super dry here, so I doubt I'll get to as long as I'm here.

#24 Soliver

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Posted 09 April 2015 - 07:40 PM

I tried it, not sure if you were still around then or if you were already MIA. I used phalaris arundinacea as a sub component, and it seemed to work pretty dang well, as evidenced by me dosing a friend in a blind test.

 

 

I don't recall that one ... seems like the trick is to have a free source of substrate to play around with, some time to grow it out, and lots & lots of test subjects ...

 

Stupid laws!

 

:)

 

soliver


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#25 Headinthehills

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Posted 12 April 2015 - 09:00 AM

They've begun to fruit. I'll post some pics once the knots turn red. It looks like I'm going to get some nice first flushes.
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#26 Headinthehills

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Posted 13 April 2015 - 10:25 AM

Today I started two more monotubs of spawn. Same recipe as above but I've doubled the tryptophan in the experiment. Still have a control going from the same clone. I used a single grain of corn on agar to keep the same genetics in play.
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#27 Headinthehills

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Posted 20 April 2015 - 11:06 AM

I snapped a couple of pics. Pins are getting big and barely showing a cap.
image.jpg image.jpg
This one looks like it's going to be a nice canopy. Fingers crossed.
image.jpg
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#28 Headinthehills

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Posted 28 April 2015 - 06:40 AM

And now, the fun begins...
image.jpg image.jpg
Only one of the tubs was ready so far. I'm planning on eating 5 FRESH grams of the enhanced mushrooms tonight. If I was wrong, I'll have a decent idea tonight, seeing as that shouldn't give me much more than a head change.

#29 catattack

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Posted 28 April 2015 - 06:49 AM

And now, the fun begins...
attachicon.gifimage.jpgattachicon.gifimage.jpg
Only one of the tubs was ready so far. I'm planning on eating 5 FRESH grams of the enhanced mushrooms tonight. If I was wrong, I'll have a decent idea tonight, seeing as that shouldn't give me much more than a head change.

FOR SCIENCE!



#30 Headinthehills

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Posted 29 April 2015 - 06:03 AM

I'm going to say 100% speculation, it worked. No where near 3.6% but stronger than a normal fresh dose. On par with maybe a 10 fresh gram dose. As I keep going with this I will log data. Once these are dry I can get my double blind taste test going.
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#31 TurkeyRanch

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Posted 29 April 2015 - 09:40 AM

Awesome. Keep going on this, I can't wait for the blind tests. What is going to be the dose, and what is the interval between tests going to be? I ask because I want to know how long I am gonna have to wait to hear how it went lol.

I know someone nowadays with a privately owned gcms, too bad your far away. Although I bet if you looked around and made some friends in the correct circles you could find one where you are, I know there are a few floating around your area.

Edited by TurkeyRanch, 29 April 2015 - 09:42 AM.


#32 Hypervision

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Posted 29 April 2015 - 03:13 PM

Awesome work HeadInTheHills, youre a pioneer for sure!


Edited by Hypervision, 29 April 2015 - 03:13 PM.


#33 Headinthehills

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Posted 29 April 2015 - 07:21 PM

One gram doses. Two week intervals. Four people will be partaking. A fifth will know what's what. Thanks hypervision, but I'm no innovator. Just borrowing an idea from other sources. One being the man that commented before you and the other being Shulgin. I'm growing a patch of phallaris this summer too, so I'll probably try one of your grows turkey. Fungi are so fascinating. Also my batch with twice the tryptophan is looking nice now. 95% colonized. Maybe the 3.6% is reachable or my guess is there will be a level of diminishing returns. Some can boost it a bunch but a bunch only boosts a little more than that, sort of thing. All speculation at this point but at least i can see a light at the end of the tunnel.
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#34 Headinthehills

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Posted 10 May 2015 - 07:28 AM

Test subjects will be referred to as A B C and D. Round one happened last night.
Subject A reported an average trip for one gram
B reported stronger than normal but not extraordinary results.
C reported a very strong trip. Moving carpet intense thoughts. And loss of focus.
Subject D reported an average trip.
in two weeks the same four will be given another blind dose of one gram. Subject C isn't quite as experienced as I had originally thought. So they're report might be slightly influenced by that.
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#35 TVCasualty

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Posted 11 May 2015 - 11:14 AM

Have you checked out these past threads yet? IMO the more data points we have to compare with, the better.

 

There are others, but these seem to be the most useful in terms of content related to increasing potency with additives that are chemically-related to psilocin/psilocybin production (not all are about tryptophan):

https://mycotopia.ne...agic-mushrooms/

https://mycotopia.ne...room-substrate/

https://mycotopia.ne...higher-potency/

https://mycotopia.ne...-no-not-really/

https://mycotopia.ne...ecting-potency/

https://mycotopia.ne...-mushy-steroid/

https://mycotopia.ne...nd-tryptamines/

 

https://mycotopia.ne...ing-phosphate/ 

 

https://mycotopia.ne...cubie-potency/ 

 

https://mycotopia.ne...room-substrate/


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#36 Heirloom Spores

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Posted 11 May 2015 - 04:30 PM

I am interested in the results, maybe more than tryptophan is required to work

the nute solution use to grow ergot in vats should have all the nute .

keep the magnesium level low.

maybe the common substrates contain all that the shrooms can use?

I don't know enough to give much advice


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#37 TVCasualty

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Posted 12 May 2015 - 09:55 AM

maybe the common substrates contain all that the shrooms can use?
 

 

It's a complicated question that we've been grappling with for a long time (as the dates of the threads linked in my previous reply indicate).

 

As far as I know nobody has managed to definitively determine why these mushrooms produce psychoactive compounds at all (in terms of what the fungi gets out of them, or how they fit into fungal physiology). Knowing that might be helpful for optimizing their production, however we may define "optimize" for ourselves.


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#38 TurkeyRanch

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Posted 12 May 2015 - 10:32 AM

I keep Tihkal/Pihkal in my bathroom, and I just re-read a section in Tihkal where Shulgin talks about biochemical mechanisms that could play a part in fungi producing 4- sub'ed triptamines, and references a German study.

It is possible to feed the fungi the proper tryptamine catalyst and change what the organism stuck on the 4 position, meaning the mushroom will 4-hydroxylate a tryptamine. When it's left alone, the fungi starts with DMT, and hydroxylates it into 4-HO-DMT, but if you started with methylethyl tryptamine (MET) or some such the fungi would produce 4-ho-MET, starting with DET would yield 4-ho-DET and so forth.

I looked but can't remember what entry this was all in.

Edit: found it!

From Tihkal DET entry:
https://www.erowid.o...al16.shtml#cz74

Some fascinating studies have been done in Germany where the metabolically active mycelium of some Psilocybe species have been administered diethyltryptamine as a potential diet component. Normally, this mushroom species dutifully converts N,N-dimethyltryptamine (DMT) to psilocin, by introducing a 4-hydroxyl group into the molecule by something that is probably called an indole 4-hydroxylase by the biochemists. You put DMT in, and you get 4-hydroxy-DMT out, and this is psilocin. Maybe if you put Mickey Mouse in, you would get 4-hydroxy-Mickey Mouse out. It is as if the mushroom psyche didn't really care what it was working with, it was simply compelled to do its sacred duty to 4-hydroxylate any tryptamine it came across. It was observed that if you put N,N-diethyltryptamine (DET, not a material found in nature) into the growing process, the dutiful and ignorant enzymes would hydroxylate it to 4-hydroxy-N,N-diethyltryptamine (4-HO-DET) a potent drug also not known in nature. This is the title drug of this commentary. What a beautiful burr to thrust into the natural versus synthetic controversy. If a plant (a mushroom mycelium in this case) is given a man-made chemical, and this plant converts it, using its natural capabilities, into a product that had never before been known in nature, is that product natural? What is natural? This is the stuff of many long and pointless essays.


Edited by TurkeyRanch, 12 May 2015 - 10:39 AM.

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#39 Headinthehills

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Posted 12 May 2015 - 05:05 PM

So this bit of information is pretty interesting. I mentioned it earlier in the post. Thank you turkey for adding it. However because you could be creating previously unused compounds a certain level of caution is needed. You could potentially create something that's much more active than what you anticipated originally. I want to try this but I don't think I'll log my results on here.

#40 TurkeyRanch

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Posted 12 May 2015 - 11:12 PM

Sorry to repost and create circular discussion, I smoke a lot of pot and read a lot of threads. . . .

I agree, messing with a different tryptamine could produce some unexpected dose response curves and should be assayed with caution. It would be awesome if someone could locate the German study that Sasha is referencing, I would love to read it. I will leaf thru the Tihkal footnotes and see if I can find some info. Hopefully it's posted online.

Edited by TurkeyRanch, 12 May 2015 - 11:15 PM.

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