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Using tryptophan to increase alkaloids


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#101 sesamstrasse1312

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Posted 28 December 2015 - 06:38 AM

So, as I read the mentioned science papers I realised that shrooms hydroxilate any tryptamines whatsoever!

 

Also, putting potassium phosphate into the substrate would help to phosphorylate psilocin into psilocybin!

 

Now, if one put any tryptamine into the substrate, what would the fungi need to dimethylate that molecules?

 

Because if we knew, we could put tryptophane, 5htp or any tryptamine into the substrate together with potassium phosphate and whith whatever is needed to dymethylate the indol ring. the result would be, if put the right amounts in the right order, for shure a maximum of possible psilocybin...! :cool:

 

Another question is this: if one filtrates his urine while and after a psilocin trip with this apparatus:

 

https://www.dmt-nexu...2615#post652615

 

... into drinkable water enriched with steady psilocin, what would this, when added to the substrate, mean to the mushroom and it's production of alkaloids? :meditate:


Edited by sesamstrasse1312, 28 December 2015 - 06:49 AM.


#102 Deejean

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Posted 28 December 2015 - 09:42 AM

Good work thanks for adding to this :)


Edit: didnt read the other post about your urine but its science so ill adress it. High salt content renders that theory unusable as cleaning the salt out would clean out the goodies. Never the less good thinking. Along the same lines, sacrifice a few grams of fungi grind it up and use it as part of your substrate as well as adding in a T rich source ( indone ring of any kind really ) might make some cool results.

Edited by Deejean, 28 December 2015 - 09:53 AM.

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#103 CatsAndBats

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Posted 28 December 2015 - 09:53 AM

So, as I read the mentioned science papers I realised that shrooms hydroxilate any tryptamines whatsoever!

 

Also, putting potassium phosphate into the substrate would help to phosphorylate psilocin into psilocybin!

 

Now, if one put any tryptamine into the substrate, what would the fungi need to dimethylate that molecules?

 

Because if we knew, we could put tryptophane, 5htp or any tryptamine into the substrate together with potassium phosphate and whith whatever is needed to dymethylate the indol ring. the result would be, if put the right amounts in the right order, for shure a maximum of possible psilocybin...! :cool:

 

Another question is this: if one filtrates his urine while and after a psilocin trip with this apparatus:

 

https://www.dmt-nexu...2615#post652615

 

... into drinkable water enriched with steady psilocin, what would this, when added to the substrate, mean to the mushroom and it's production of alkaloids? :meditate:

 

 

 

That's so funny, I just saw a "documentary" (it wasn't very scientific or very good), on the Vikings using urine to neutralize the side effects of psilocybin..

 

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#104 Deejean

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Posted 28 December 2015 - 09:56 AM

Aha hey cat good to see you around, zakna0693 says hi and that the testing with different indoles like melatonin in the substrate turned out well :)
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#105 SteampunkScientist

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Posted 13 February 2016 - 10:13 PM

They sell a brand of 5 hydroxy trytaphan at most of the vitamin shops now, but its damn expensive, at about 25 bucks a bottle. Wondered if anyone has results from these experiments that show if its worth doing?

For me, if the shroomies have enough nutes, will this really make a difference? Is it possible that woodlovers do this because of the nutes in wood? I wonder....

#106 sesamstrasse1312

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Posted 19 February 2016 - 06:04 AM

Now I can say it is not worth it.

Tryptophan supplement does not increase psilocin or psilocybin levels since it would only result in 4-htp and for any reason, maybe a time factor, it would not reach the methyltransferase to psilocin.

(5-ho-)tryptamine would be (re)hydroxylated at the 4 position and there seems to be enouth time for a methyltransferase of small amounts to an extra psilocin content of very very little more than normal. But the costs relativ to the outcome is definitively not worth that action since there are better ways to increase growth or biosynthesis.

If 5-htp would lead to an extra amount of psilocin/psilocybin, then the effect woukd be minimal and the effort not worth it.

In tests, see Gold's article "the mushroom entheogen part 3a: nutritional influences on growth and biosynthesis of psilocybin", many carbohydrates and nitrates were tested for the ability to increase growth and/or psilocybin production. The mushrooms need for nutrition is a relation of 9/1 for carbohydrates/nitrogen.

Carbon source:
in short the best carbon source for increasing mycelium growth is maltose.
For psilocin production the best source for increasing the alkaloid content is dextrose (d-glucose). One teaspoon dextrose per jar increases that content by 25%! More dextrose makes it very difficult to shake the jar, because of the sirup effect.

Nitrogen source:
There are nitrogen sources that inhibit growth and biosynthesis. An excess of tryptophan results in production of toxic ingredients inhibiting mycelia growth, so you do not want to use it or even soy beans.
Since the mushroom needs carbohydrates for its biosynthesis and since glycin is an amino acid the helps the carbon takeup in cells, and since rye has no glycin, glycin is a very good candidate for nitrogen source. Tests has shown that a mix of glycin/succinic acid 9/1 helps increasing the total alkoloid content.

Last not least the mushroom needs trace elements vitamines and minerals. Tests has shown that a combination of carbohydrate-nitrogen-traceelement supplement is more effective that any if these in its own. Complex media always improves the benefit from each single nutritional source.
Yeast extract is a good candidate as a vitamin b source but i think we may experimenting with others...

Edited by sesamstrasse1312, 19 February 2016 - 08:20 AM.

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#107 mjroom

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Posted 27 May 2016 - 05:36 PM

I take it then that adding Dextrose to your mycelium helps increase psilocyn, so only really helps with potency for fresh consumption? Maltose would be the best overall carbon additive if dried fruit was the end goal? thanks mjroom.



#108 CatsAndBats

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Posted 30 May 2016 - 09:19 AM

FWIW, I saved all of my morning glory 'straw' from last year and just this am added some to a bulk mix.. not really testing it, but just for shits and giggles.


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#109 sesamstrasse1312

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Posted 04 June 2016 - 06:17 AM

I take it then that adding Dextrose to your mycelium helps increase psilocyn, so only really helps with potency for fresh consumption? Maltose would be the best overall carbon additive if dried fruit was the end goal? thanks mjroom.

 

Hi, no it isn't that way. Only the total amount of alkoloids were testet that way together mith the mycelium weight. Maltose produced the most fast growing, strongest mycelium with the highest weight total. Dextrose produced the most procentual (!) amount of total alkoloids, psilocin AND psilocybin and also (nor)baeocystine and co.
 

 

FWIW, I saved all of my morning glory 'straw' from last year and just this am added some to a bulk mix.. not really testing it, but just for shits and giggles.

 

:-D :-D :-D


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#110 mjroom

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Posted 04 June 2016 - 09:53 AM

 

I take it then that adding Dextrose to your mycelium helps increase psilocyn, so only really helps with potency for fresh consumption? Maltose would be the best overall carbon additive if dried fruit was the end goal? thanks mjroom.

 

Hi, no it isn't that way. Only the total amount of alkoloids were testet that way together mith the mycelium weight. Maltose produced the most fast growing, strongest mycelium with the highest weight total. Dextrose produced the most procentual (!) amount of total alkoloids, psilocin AND psilocybin and also (nor)baeocystine and co.
 

 

FWIW, I saved all of my morning glory 'straw' from last year and just this am added some to a bulk mix.. not really testing it, but just for shits and giggles.

 

:-D :-D :-D

 

ok so what about starting your grow bed using maltose (as an add mix to the substrate) to speed growth and strengthen the mycelium then once it is well established switch to dextrose prior to pinning to enhance alkaloid content? Sugars are likely being used at a rapid rate are they not? Thanks for responding. Regards mjroom.


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#111 SteampunkScientist

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Posted 11 June 2016 - 10:46 PM

Yeeesssss... me likes the mushroom candy!!!

#112 greenosophy

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Posted 26 October 2016 - 08:32 AM

The methylation factor I think is Methionine (aminoacid) whic is CH3 donating group

 

So, as I read the mentioned science papers I realised that shrooms hydroxilate any tryptamines whatsoever!

 

Also, putting potassium phosphate into the substrate would help to phosphorylate psilocin into psilocybin!

 

Now, if one put any tryptamine into the substrate, what would the fungi need to dimethylate that molecules?

 

Because if we knew, we could put tryptophane, 5htp or any tryptamine into the substrate together with potassium phosphate and whith whatever is needed to dymethylate the indol ring. the result would be, if put the right amounts in the right order, for shure a maximum of possible psilocybin...! :cool:

 

Another question is this: if one filtrates his urine while and after a psilocin trip with this apparatus:

 

https://www.dmt-nexu...2615#post652615

 

... into drinkable water enriched with steady psilocin, what would this, when added to the substrate, mean to the mushroom and it's production of alkaloids? :meditate:


Edited by greenosophy, 26 October 2016 - 08:35 AM.


#113 greenosophy

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Posted 10 December 2016 - 10:00 AM

They sell a brand of 5 hydroxy trytaphan at most of the vitamin shops now, but its damn expensive, at about 25 bucks a bottle. Wondered if anyone has results from these experiments that show if its worth doing?

For me, if the shroomies have enough nutes, will this really make a difference? Is it possible that woodlovers do this because of the nutes in wood? I wonder....

There is on smart shop 5htp extract only, and its not so expensive try gaiana 



#114 greenosophy

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Posted 10 December 2016 - 10:10 AM

I wonder if spirulina can be applied, because it's the most reached in Trp and protein over all, or another candidate may be casein which is high Trp, but I cannot immagine how it behave. Anyone was thinking about it?



#115 Metalneck

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Posted 26 February 2017 - 01:16 PM

Interesting thread.

 

Re. saporins.

The biological function of these is to stop all seeds sprouting at the same time. For instance, a late frost could kill all the seedlings. Saporins ensure the coating of seeds degrade at different rates over time depending on soil conditions. So if some plants get killed off by frost others will be in ground to sprout later.

 

Aside from fungi, I grow culinary herbs in the garden.

Parsley for instance can be hard to sprout because of...you guessed it...saporins

 

There is a very easy way to get rid of these soapy saporins. Simply wash the seeds in water with a little washing up liquid in. Soak them for 10 mins or so and give them a rinse.

No coating. Triptamine in the quinoa available for your mycelium!

 

Hope that's a bit of useful information. I'll try adding some quinoa myself next time too.


Edited by Metalneck, 26 February 2017 - 01:36 PM.

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