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Supreme Court: Police can't extend a traffic stop to wait for a drug dog!


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#1 Sidestreet

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Posted 23 April 2015 - 03:14 PM

http://news.yahoo.co...-142805661.html

 

 

WASHINGTON (AP) — The Supreme Court said Tuesday that police may not extend an ordinary traffic stop to seek evidence of crimes unrelated to the offense that prompted officers to pull a vehicle over.

 

The justices voted 6-3 in favor of a driver who was found to have methamphetamine in his car. Dennys Rodriguez was issued a warning for driving on the shoulder of a Nebraska highway and then made to wait less than 10 minutes for officers to walk a drug-sniffing dog around the car. The dog alerted and a search of the vehicle turned up the drugs.

 

But Justice Ruth Bader Ginsburg said in her majority opinion that prolonging the traffic stop beyond the time needed to deal with the initial offense was improper, even if only for a few minutes.

 

Police may typically inspect a driver's license, ask for the registration and proof of insurance and check for outstanding warrants because they all are aimed at ensuring that vehicles are operated safely, Ginsburg said.

 

"A dog sniff, unlike those stock inquiries, lacks the same tie to roadway safety," she said.

Ginsburg also swatted away arguments that the total duration of the stop was reasonable.

The precise amount of time involved is unimportant, she said. "A traffic stop becomes unlawful if prolonged beyond the time in fact needed to complete all traffic-based inquiries," Ginsburg said.

 

It's important to note that this doesn't mean the police can never send for a dog.  They just can't do it without a reason to suspect that there are drugs in the car (I'm not yet sure what the standard would be here, can someone help me out?)

 

Also important: the police don't have to let you know when you're free to go.  But if you are free to go and they say you aren't, then they are also likely to be impermissibly extending the duration of the stop.

 

Still, this is a major victory for privacy!  Privacy rights have been so eroded by the Supreme Court over the years, so this is pretty exciting.

 

Traffic stops are the number one point of contact between the public and law enforcement.


Edited by Sidestreet, 23 April 2015 - 03:20 PM.

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#2 Alder Logs

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Posted 23 April 2015 - 04:49 PM

Let me guess, Thomas the sock puppet and the hand up his ass were in the minority?


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#3 Juthro

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Posted 23 April 2015 - 04:53 PM

Let me guess, Thomas the sock puppet and the hand up his ass were in the minority?


Lucky guess....
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#4 Alder Logs

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Posted 23 April 2015 - 04:56 PM

 

Ginsburg said, in an opinion joined by Chief Justice John Roberts and Justices Antonin Scalia, Stephen Breyer, Sonia Sotomayor and Elena Kagan.

 

I am shocked and disturbed by the idea that Clarence Thomas has gone rogue and may have even written a decision without butt buddy, Antonin.


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#5 mycowarrier

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Posted 23 April 2015 - 05:20 PM

http://news.yahoo.co...-142805661.html

 

 

WASHINGTON (AP) — The Supreme Court said Tuesday that police may not extend an ordinary traffic stop to seek evidence of crimes unrelated to the offense that prompted officers to pull a vehicle over.

 

The justices voted 6-3 in favor of a driver who was found to have methamphetamine in his car. Dennys Rodriguez was issued a warning for driving on the shoulder of a Nebraska highway and then made to wait less than 10 minutes for officers to walk a drug-sniffing dog around the car. The dog alerted and a search of the vehicle turned up the drugs.

 

But Justice Ruth Bader Ginsburg said in her majority opinion that prolonging the traffic stop beyond the time needed to deal with the initial offense was improper, even if only for a few minutes.

 

Police may typically inspect a driver's license, ask for the registration and proof of insurance and check for outstanding warrants because they all are aimed at ensuring that vehicles are operated safely, Ginsburg said.

 

"A dog sniff, unlike those stock inquiries, lacks the same tie to roadway safety," she said.

Ginsburg also swatted away arguments that the total duration of the stop was reasonable.

The precise amount of time involved is unimportant, she said. "A traffic stop becomes unlawful if prolonged beyond the time in fact needed to complete all traffic-based inquiries," Ginsburg said.

 

It's important to note that this doesn't mean the police can never send for a dog.  They just can't do it without a reason to suspect that there are drugs in the car (I'm not yet sure what the standard would be here, can someone help me out?)

LEO can and do anything they want including lying,illegal searching,beating you to a pulp or tazing/shooting.

That's why they hate video cameras.

 

When incarcerated you have no rights while you're in a room with no cameras and two steroid cops dying to beat the shit out of you.

I speak from experience.


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#6 Spooner

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Posted 23 April 2015 - 07:07 PM

Personally I was beat to a pulp in the  elevator. It does not take long for two cops to put a handcuffed man on the floor in pain/

 

Next day when bailed out I took multiple pix to document the bruises.

My lawyer swapped dropping all charges against me in exchange for not suing the police force.


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#7 Sidestreet

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Posted 23 April 2015 - 10:42 PM

"If it's not recorded, it didn't happen."  Of course, anything the police say counts as a recording unless you have something that proves otherwise...

 

Police can do whatever they want, more or less.  The law only applies to what they can use against you in court.


Edited by Sidestreet, 23 April 2015 - 10:42 PM.

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#8 Soliver

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Posted 24 April 2015 - 06:02 PM

I'm in love with modern technology for what it's doing to the police-state, even if I'm not so fond of what it's doing to the citizens.

 

Cops are like the position of president:  anyone who wants the job shouldn't be allowed to have it.  I'd be in favor of a lottery, pulled from local citizens without felonies, violent crimes, or documented psycological disorders (that narrows down the population quite a bit) to be a cop for ... oh ... say two years?  Then it's passed on, and said citizen gets to return to his / her profession of choice, 'cop' not being an option.

 

Then, I think, we'd all understand each other a bit more. 

 

Several of the dickholes I knew from high-school who would drive around at night looking for trouble of any sort ended up on the dark side.  Then they got paid to drive around at night and look for trouble.  They were, to a man (sorry ladies), racist shits I wouldn't trust to feed my cat for a week.  Now they all have pistols and we wonder why there's a new story every week of a minority citizen getting shot in the back, neck broken in transit, hung from a swingset ... the litany of crimes is sickening.

 

I had a cop help me once, but that's out of probably 20+ experiences with Johnny Law.  I had a chimney fire about 10 years ago - two cop cars showed up first and blocked my driveway.  They were smoking cigarettes and wandering around the house when the firetrucks got to the property and it took 15+ minutes for them to move their porkmobiles ...

 

Dammit.  I done burned my grits ... damn you internet!

 

:)

 

soliver


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#9 Spooner

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Posted 24 April 2015 - 08:20 PM

 I had a chimney fire about 10 years ago 

 

 

The solution to a chimney fire is far more simple than its explanation.

 

In New England a Widow's Walk (a small room or porch on top of a house) is a common design feature.  This served two distinct purposes. Near the shore a woman could look out searching for her seafaring husband, but inland it is used to access the top of the chimney in order to put out chimney fires. 

 

The fire acts like a jet engine, pulling in vast quantities of oxygen to combust with creosote (or wood tar) in the chimney and shooting flames out the top.  By simply pouring a box of every day table salt down the chimney, the fire will go out.

 

When salt is heated it turns to liquid then to vapor.  This process is used in salt glaze pottery.   But, as with any Phase Change (melting ice or boiling water) the conversion uses up a lot of heat thus cooling the area around  it.   By pouring the salt down the chimney, the heat is sucked out of the fire.  I believe that oxygen is additionally taken away from the air in the process. thus starving the fire but I am not a chemist.

 

So the simple answer is salt, table salt, kosher pickling salt, rock salt, any salt.  I know from personal experience that a pound of Morton's table salt will totally extinguish a raging chimney fire within seconds. 15 Minutes later the volunteer firemen arrived but the fire was already out.  I sent a case of beer to the firehouse anyway.  The Widow's Walk or any rooftop access to a chimney can save a house,


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#10 Alder Logs

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Posted 24 April 2015 - 09:04 PM

I'm trying to see the salt going into the exhaust of a jet engine. 

 

I have always liked having a good heavy steel stack that I can burn out on a wet day.  I have Metalbestos at the moment with no bends.  You can hold a mirror in the stove and see light from the top.  I burned a roof off once in November.  That wasn't handy.



#11 Juthro

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Posted 24 April 2015 - 09:11 PM

Baking Soda is also very effective as a fire fighting agent. As it is heated it produces lots of CO2 and removes O2, snuffing the fire out, it is a actually quite effective for putting a fire out. I also suggest adding it to the fire box, no need to get on the roof.

@ Alder: Metalbestos is the only way to go IMHO, it is worth the money.

Edited by Juthro, 24 April 2015 - 09:14 PM.


#12 Alder Logs

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Posted 24 April 2015 - 09:42 PM

@ Alder: Metalbestos is the only way to go IMHO, it is worth the money.

 

 

CraigsList to the rescue.



#13 Soliver

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Posted 24 April 2015 - 09:42 PM

 

The fire acts like a jet engine, pulling in vast quantities of oxygen to combust with creosote (or wood tar) in the chimney and shooting flames out the top.  By simply pouring a box of every day table salt down the chimney, the fire will go out.

 

 

That's what I thought too.  I dumped two containers of Morton's down the damn thing and followed that with the two boxes of baking soda I had next to the cat-shit box - no dice (I was fortunate to have easy roof-access to the chimney - very handy indeed).  Then I stacked ceramic tiles over the top of the chimney & dialed 911.

 

The fire-guys dumped a chemical packet down the chimney that was - quite literally - the size of a pillow, and followed that with chains.  Totally cool guys - all 15 of them that came (our volunteers take their shit very seriously). 

 

I wish we could swap the cops for the firemen.  At least one of the groups was there because they wanted to be...

 

:)

 

soliver



#14 Spooner

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Posted 24 April 2015 - 10:08 PM

Volunteer Firemen are cool dedicated peeps. 

 

Not sure why salt did not work for you Soliver but it worked like a charm for me.  

I tore the top off with my teeth and poured the whole box down the chimney and in one quick whush the fire was out.

 

P.S. Any chemists around who can calculate the BTU's used to vaporize a pound of salt. and perhaps shed some light on the quantity of oxygen bound up in the process?


Edited by Spooner, 24 April 2015 - 10:15 PM.


#15 happy4nic8r

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Posted 24 April 2015 - 10:19 PM

I had a night with a gal and she put on TWO Duraflame logs in the fireplace.

 

Now I didn't think anything of it until the glass front exploded covering us with hot metal and glass particles. Luckily we were naked so it just bounced off, but I got a box of salt and saved the people's house for them.

 

They were pissed, said they had insurance if the house burned.

 

Last date with her, but I read the label on the logs and it says pretty clearly DON"T put more than one in your fireplace.

 

You miss things not reading directions, I guess.

 

Thank god the cops and fire weren't involved, one more skate from the clutches of the LEO's.



#16 Soliver

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Posted 24 April 2015 - 10:56 PM

Volunteer Firemen are cool dedicated peeps. 

 

Not sure why salt did not work for you Soliver but it worked like a charm for me.  

I tore the top off with my teeth and poured the whole box down the chimney and in one quick whush the fire was out.

 

P.S. Any chemists around who can calculate the BTU's used to vaporize a pound of salt. and perhaps shed some light on the quantity of oxygen bound up in the process?

 

It was an odd year - I'm usually religious about chimney cleaning (I do it myself) but somehow I got to late Februrary without the usual x-mas break cleaning ....

 

The chimney looked like a square flaming sphincter - I'm not even sure the stuff I dumped down there even went down - the creosote started burning and expanded like a motherfucker - it's no joke - that stuff really does fluff up when it catches ... imagine an entire roll of toilet paper burning all at the same time, and it was a bit like that, but without the center tube.  If I had to guess, the chems I dumped in there probably went a few feet down if even that (I couldn't really get a good look, what with the intense heat and all) ...

 

The fire guys & chains & more chems did the trick though, and when it was all said and done, the chimney was hella-clean.  good times!

 

:)

 

soliver



#17 Sidestreet

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Posted 24 April 2015 - 11:06 PM

lol, I don't think I've ever seen a thread go off topic on such a specific tangent and stay there for so long.  I'm actually kind of impressed.

 

Carry on...  :biggrin:  fireplace safety is important too.


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#18 Spooner

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Posted 24 April 2015 - 11:07 PM

Yea Soliver, it is a real fourth of July fireworks show with the flames shooting out and sparks going 20 feet in the air

 

It would be pretty if it were not so scary and noisy.



#19 Spooner

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Posted 24 April 2015 - 11:15 PM

lol, I don't think I've ever seen a thread go off topic on such a specific tangent and stay there for so long.  I'm actually kind of impressed.

 

Carry on...  :biggrin:  fireplace safety is important too.

 

I agree Sidestreet but as a theoretical mathematician friend used to tell me. "Consistency is the prison of small minds."


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#20 shiitakegrower

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Posted 25 April 2015 - 04:48 AM

It is truly amazing, I was so lost in thought while reading this thread that when I read the last comment by Sidestreet... about it being off topic I had to scroll to the top to remind myself what the post was originally about. :)  

 

yet another reason I love the Topia! 


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