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911 Conspiracy Thread- the ultimate ongoing conspiracy


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#21 SteampunkScientist

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Posted 13 September 2015 - 06:19 AM

Regardless of the fact that all the stories here were made up bullshit, real, innocent people are dying because of them. There are dead people, dead children. No amount of philosophising will change that.

You see, if I am a face that the real observer wears, and I am indignant over what what some other I has done, who is indignant? Is not the art of becoming an ongoing struggle to embrace ever more the good, and erase the evil? To say there is no good or evil, is a cop out. There most certainly is.

BTW I am not accusing anyone of copping out here on the forum, I want to make that clear! You all is good people. We may not agree on everything, if we did all but one of us would be unnecessary! :)

Edited by SteampunkScientist, 13 September 2015 - 11:28 AM.

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#22 Myc

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Posted 13 September 2015 - 12:15 PM

Regardless of the fact that all the stories here were made up bullshit, real, innocent people are dying because of them. There are dead people, dead children. No amount of philosophising will change that.

You see, if I am a face that the real observer wears, and I am indignant over what what some other I has done, who is indignant? Is not the art of becoming an ongoing struggle to embrace ever more the good, and erase the evil? To say there is no good or evil, is a cop out. There most certainly is.

 

^^^This^^^ is where I ultimately arrive when considering all of these types of "conspiracies".

 

We are consummately deceived and can never know the True Purpose of existence except at the level of the individual (i.e. "faith" - in whatever form)

 

There is a cadre of individuals who absolutely understand these ideas and utilize the concepts learned for the purposes of manipulation. They help us create our "faith" by using propaganda. 

I AM and so too are you. 

Yet there are those who allow themselves to be self-deceived - and 'round and 'round we go

It seems that lately the necessity to even pretend to agree with the populace is being forgone. Anyone who doesn't see a parallel between the handling of Indigenous North Americans and the modern-day handling of the Middle East is just hopelessly lost to self-deceit and doomed to repeat the failures of those policies even though we can still see - in real-time - the results of those past failures. We are doing a much better job this time around by replacing the Sharp's rifle with the military drone.

So when everybody is under-educated, impoverished, deprived of cultural and central social values.......after everyone on Earth begins pursuing the "American Dream" - in other words, becomes fragmented from their social, cultural, and familial value sets (ego-centricized) ........then it will be time to get down to some serious hedonistic non-sense like real gladiators, debtors being thrown to wild animals in the colloseum, public executions for "crimes against the Gubbamint" - oh joy, I simply cannot wait.

In time my friends, just give it time. It's a war of attrition. I just hope that I never have to come back to this hellish, Orwellian dystopia again.

Hitler and Mussolini praised the actions of Roosevelt publicly. That, right there, was some scary shit in my opinion. And they won't tell you about those letters of praise in any history book you'll find in "school".

Good? - Evil? - sometimes it gets overwhelming. Are we all sociopaths? Perhaps that's the test.

 

"Vicariously I 

Live while the whole world dies"

(We should seriously put this statement on our fiat currency)

vicariusly Vivo ego dum totum mundum moritur

 

Abandon all hope ye who enter here. 

Instead, let us take up the violin, drink wine from lead cups, and watch the whole thing burn.

'Murica.....Fuck Yeah!!


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#23 Alder Logs

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Posted 13 September 2015 - 01:20 PM

9/11 as rallying cry to go to war against the Muslim world, or the rallying cry to burn the edifices of corrupt power?  Incinerate the Bohemian Grove?  Nuke Jupiter Island?  Storm the next meeting of the Builderberg Group?  All we need is a righteous leader.  Any volunteers?  Maybe a leaderless organization with everyone on the same page.  How about it, anyone here want some general's stars?  We can all have peace as soon as we knock this last detail out. 

 

[Direct Link]


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#24 TVCasualty

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Posted 14 September 2015 - 01:41 PM

Regardless of the fact that all the stories here were made up bullshit, real, innocent people are dying because of them. There are dead people, dead children. No amount of philosophising will change that.


Pick your battles carefully.

Bear in mind that the obvious targets for focusing one's paradigm-shattering efforts on are obvious targets for a reason. This ain't their first rodeo, after all. Or to be more precise, their first bullfight. "We the People" are the angry bull and the "obvious targets" act as the red cape presented to us in order to draw our attention and energy away from the matador who holds it.

This is one reason why reflexive anger is not a good foundation to take action from (chances are we're just charging at the metaphorical cape being dangled in front of us, though every once in a while a lucky bull snags or stomps on a matador and the unnatural order of things is turned upside-down for a couple of minutes, but those are the rare exceptions that prove the rule).

In the context of a fight between two individuals, it can be advantageous (if counter-intuitive) to induce white-hot rage in one's opponent since it tends to induce tunnel-vision, sloppy haste, and bad judgment. That suggests victory is more likely when one maintains a state of steadfast inner calmness when engaging in fights, and by extension conflicts in general.

To do otherwise is to re-act rather than to act, and if we're reacting to the actions of others we are giving them the authority to dictate our behavior. For example, all you need to do to make most "tough guys" dance for you is say something nasty about their mother (let the bullfight begin!). Governments, or whoever happens to have their hands on society's biggest levers (since the few controlling the many is a function of leverage) play this game, too. Donald Trump is masterful at it, but even he isn't the actual matador holding the cape. Like politicians in general, he's just part of the cape (it might be interesting to find out who the matador waving him at us is, but probably not).



Some old Wise-Ass once said (emphasis added):

Don't burn a blanket because of one flea!
Don't waste a day on trivial irritation,
some gnat's headache.

Take your attention off the forms
and focus on what's inside.

If you're on this way, choose companions
who are also pilgrims. No matter their shape,
color, or national origin, if they are your
people, go with them.

This confused story,
like the doings of lovers, may be told up and
down and sideways, because it's not a story.

It has no beginning or end. It's water.
Each incident-drop is self-contained, and yet
not.

This is just the bare cash of how we are
in this instant, you and I.

A sufi sees that whatever happened in the past
is completely gone. In that last story we told,
we are all now the man with his gift of water,
and the generous caliph, and the jug.

Know this: there's a marriage in each of us.
One partner is reason, universal clarity.
The other is desire and ambition. Those qualities
darken the candles of reason.

How did this come to be? It happens
because the whole has parts, and the parts
are not in relation to the whole as the smell
of the rose remains somehow part of the rose.

And with the rose that I'm talking about,
all the growing things are inside it, just
as the turtledove's coo enters and becomes
the nightingale.

But if I go more deeply
into this difficult question, will I be able
to give water to those of you who are thirsty?

If you're in some particular trouble,
a tight spot, be patient. Patience
is the way out of anxiety.

And try to avoid distracting thoughts.
Thoughts are like wild donkeys in the thicket
of human existence.


Stay away from the market bazaar of thought-traffic,
and find your strength.

Such acts of abstinence are the ultimate medicine.
Let these words enter your open ear,
and they will become a gold earring.

And then you will become a ring around the moon
ascending toward the Pleiades.

Know that created beings are as diverse as Z
and A. From one perspective unified.
From another they seem opposites.

To one being, resurrection is laughter.
To another, its a deadly judging-time,
when all frauds will be exposed.

A thorn loves the fall, because then he knows
that he won't be compared to the rose,
but the gardener knows, and a True Human Being
is always saying, "Look, it's Spring!"

The body is here blooming and shining,
because form must be,
and then be dropped, before the knobs
of spiritual fruit can appear.

Bread must be broken, before it gives us
strength. Clusters of grapes must be crushed
to make wine. Myrobalan
must be pounded into powder,
so it can heal.

Husam! Take out two clean
sheets of paper. Add a description
of the true Sheikh. Your slender body
is so frail, but without the gift of your spirit-sun
we could see nothing. You are the wick,
the end of the thread, the clue we follow.

Write about the guide,
the Summer full-Moon.

Husam is young, but the truth has made him so old
that he has no birthdate. Old wine and old gold
are the most precious. Find such a teacher,
because without one you're in danger.
You need an escort on this mountain road.
If you go alone, you'll get dizzy
with the ghoul-sounds.

Read the Qu'ran where it tells about
these bits of bone and hair
that we find by the roadside.


Keep the reins tight, or your donkey will stray.
And if you do leave the road, go in the opposite
direction from where your donkey wants to go.

That will get you back on the path.
Don't be constant friends
with sexual desire.

Stay with those who have a true guide,
Their company protects.


-- Mathnawi I, 2892-2959
Translation by Coleman Barks
"Feeling the Shoulder of the Lion"
Threshold Books, 1991


While reading the Quran/Koran is optional/unnecessary in this context, that point about "these bits of bone and hair that we find by the roadside" is warning we ignore at our peril. Bullfighting is considered an art form, after all (well, it is by the matadors, at least).

You see, if I am a face that the real observer wears, and I am indignant over what what some other I has done, who is indignant? Is not the art of becoming an ongoing struggle to embrace ever more the good, and erase the evil? To say there is no good or evil, is a cop out. There most certainly is.


I guess the key to the whole dilemma is figuring out who (or what) the hell the "matador" is. I can't really say for sure, but in my calmest, clearest moments I get the distinct impression that he/it is ultimately my own mind, or a construct of same.

And if I can "fix" that, I can save not only the world, but the entire Universe (because that's where it's at). And probably just in time to die, if I'm lucky!

Edited by TVCasualty, 14 September 2015 - 01:43 PM.

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#25 SteampunkScientist

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Posted 14 September 2015 - 08:45 PM

Possibly TV, possibly... But as you say, once in a while...

Once in a while the matedore makes a mistake, and kills the wrong man's family. And that man steps back and takes a wide angle view of the scene, and then, with cold calculation he becomes the most dangerous thing in the universe...

A man with nothing to loose.

Such a man has no fear anymore. Such a man has no remorse. Such a man wants only to kill the matedore.

If such a thing were to happen to me, I would seek to be such a man. I don't think I am alone in that either.

#26 TVCasualty

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Posted 15 September 2015 - 10:27 AM

Possibly TV, possibly... But as you say, once in a while...

Once in a while the matedore makes a mistake, and kills the wrong man's family. And that man steps back and takes a wide angle view of the scene, and then, with cold calculation he becomes the most dangerous thing in the universe...

A man with nothing to loose.

Such a man has no fear anymore. Such a man has no remorse. Such a man wants only to kill the matedore.

If such a thing were to happen to me, I would seek to be such a man. I don't think I am alone in that either.





Angry bulls are not afraid and have no remorse when they manage to gore the matador, either. But matadors know that, which is why they wave those capes in front of us. It's performance art, and the only way to "win" is to kill the game, not the matador (matadors are easily replaceable so long as the arena remains standing). And the only way to kill this game is by not accepting the role of Angry Bull.

If the Angry Bull were to ever figure out how to ground its anger and approach the situation with calm, rational contemplation then there would likely not even be a need to gore the matador. He'd be shitting his metaphorical (and possibly real) pants once he realizes he's stuck in the arena with a large, contemplative bull that is not distracted by the silly capes, and when the bull isn't distracted by the flapping capes, it isn't vulnerable to the lances and swords anymore, either).

That sort of paradigm shift would be no less shocking than if a real bull had stopped charging, stood up on its hind legs, walked up to the matador and said "Excuse me, but this dynamic between us is completely unacceptable and really has to change, and seeing as how I weigh 1500 pounds and you only weigh 150, it would clearly be in your best interest to hear me out while I'm still in the mood to negotiate."



Another way to look at it is nicely embodied in the following quote (at least in my opinion): "Blame is for God and small children." -Louis Dega, as played by Dustin Hoffman in Papillon, one of the best films ever made (it's about the struggle to tolerate existence so is also highly-relevant to this discussion; it's well-worth a watch).

When I first heard that line, I recoiled and came up with all sorts of good reasons why it was wrong. But I guess it stuck with me for a reason (I first saw that movie in the early 90's and happened to be on acid, which was quite intense). Now, it's a self-evident truth as far as I'm concerned (relapses into rantin' and ravin' still happen, but with decreasing frequency over time.


And for yet another fascinating (and rare, unfortunately) perspective on this stuff, check out a documentary titled Forgiving Dr. Mengele. It's about one of the survivors (Eva Mozes Kor) of his horrifying "experiments" and the excruciatingly painful inner journey she took that ultimately resulted in her forgiving him for what he'd done to her and her twin sister (Mengele liked to experiment on identical twins, using one as a "control"). It was disturbing to see how much hatred and vitriol she received from other Holocaust survivors when she began talking openly about her decision, but they apparently misunderstood her gesture or else they simply rejected it outright because they'd grown comfortable with their rage and the thought of letting it go probably felt like losing a major aspect of their identity.
However, the whole point of the film was to clarify what her gesture was really all about, which was NOT letting Mengele or the Nazis off the hook. Quite the opposite; it was about finally freeing herself from her victimization. What better vengeance can be had (realistically) than surviving your oppressor, freeing yourself from any dark, traumatic memories of them, and achieving a contented, enjoyable life in spite of it all? The survivors who chastised and berated her for her stance were still being victimized by Mengele's ghost, and they wanted no part of kicking that habit.


There's one other thing I wanted to comment on: The implicit suggestion that suffering some level of atrocity against us and/or our loved ones automatically strips us of our humanity (i.e. "nothing to lose" and "no remorse" while becoming "the most dangerous thing in the Universe"). It doesn't. That is a choice (I'd even go so far as to say it's a form of self-indulgence), and what separates "human" from "animal" more so than anything else (IMO) is our ability to override instinct with intellect (see the Rumi verses above). Until the Angry Bull can do that, the matador will always ultimately prevail since the bull will always remain an animal, even if it gores the occasional matador.


If a tree fell over and crushed your house, killing your entire family in the process (but you survived), would you declare war on trees, cutting as many down as you could and setting forests on fire, etc.? While that might seem pointless, if some jackbooted pigs killed your family and burned down your house, how is declaring war on "the government" in general any less futile of a response?


Edited by TVCasualty, 15 September 2015 - 10:32 AM.

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#27 Alder Logs

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Posted 15 September 2015 - 12:19 PM

 

A thought by itself carries no power.  A thought, with belief, can start a war.

~Mooji

 

By reducing analysis and inquiry of ego-identity and motive, via story, to "philosophizing," allows one to ignore such inquiry and to argue one's own hypothetical futures, based on one's own philosophical and historical surmises.  There should be no argument, only a deeper inquiry.  All conditioned identities will have a different story, and even these are constantly in flux.  And yet, the position of the instant might be defended to the death.  It is the tyrant's art to use a popular story to rally the masses.  When the alternative is the story, according to the charismatic zealot, will the ultimate outcome be so different from the status quo?  We don't have the perspective to inquire into any identity but one.  And to see one's conditioning from within the conditioning is not possible.  It is a step of incredible honesty to actually endeavor to know thyself.  One starts anew at every instant in this quest.  One may see at the peak of a psychedelic experience, and lose it when viewed from the conditioned identity.  This should show us that memories are never what was true.  We can't have an experience that is past, so we rely on the concepts formed about it. Instead of staying present in experience, undefined and not judged, we occupy our present with its conceptual representation in belief and memory. We leave the present reality in a belief that we know it well enough conceptually and this we let suffice for presence. This is the dream.


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#28 August West

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Posted 16 September 2015 - 12:10 AM

[Direct Link]

 

Came back to see if the embed would work. It did. Feel free to fix this (or not). It would be the embed for the second youtube address in my initial post on this thread.

 

Follow the money/who benefits? The first rule in any investigation. How did the 9/11 Commission Report address the question of money: "Ultimately, the question is of little practical significance". 



#29 SteampunkScientist

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Posted 16 September 2015 - 07:26 AM

If the Angry Bull were to ever figure out how to ground its anger and approach the situation with calm, rational contemplation then there would likely not even be a need to gore the matador. He'd be shitting his metaphorical (and possibly real) pants once he realizes he's stuck in the arena with a large, contemplative bull that is not distracted by the silly capes, and when the bull isn't distracted by the flapping capes, it isn't vulnerable to the lances and swords anymore, either).

That sort of paradigm shift would be no less shocking than if a real bull had stopped charging, stood up on its hind legs, walked up to the matador and said "Excuse me, but this dynamic between us is completely unacceptable and really has to change, and seeing as how I weigh 1500 pounds and you only weigh 150, it would clearly be in your best interest to hear me out while I'm still in the mood to negotiate."


Quite true - and really this goes to the point of the saying "Revenge is a dish best served cold." When I say the most dangerous man in the world is a man with nothing to loose, I am not talking about enraged person who has lost all hold on reason, oh no, I am talking about the sort of person who knows that "forgiveness" allows them to free their heart, but also understands that a rabid dog must not be allowed to rome the streets while there are little children about, and it is up to them to rid the world of this rabid dog. There is quite a bit of differnce. The person who claims to "forgive" and then allow the rabid dog to continue is deluding themselves.

By the way, the Talking Bull part had me rolling in laughter as I imagined the bull, standing on its hind legs, sipping tea with a monical and top hat.
 

However, the whole point of the film was to clarify what her gesture was really all about, which was NOT letting Mengele or the Nazis off the hook. Quite the opposite; it was about finally freeing herself from her victimization. What better vengeance can be had (realistically) than surviving your oppressor, freeing yourself from any dark, traumatic memories of them, and achieving a contented, enjoyable life in spite of it all? The survivors who chastised and berated her for her stance were still being victimized by Mengele's ghost, and they wanted no part of kicking that habit.


Precisly, and this is what I mean above. Sometimes "killing the rabid dog" does not have to be actually killing the individual who did the deed, but killing them in a real historical sense with shame that will NEVER end.
 

If a tree fell over and crushed your house, killing your entire family in the process (but you survived), would you declare war on trees, cutting as many down as you could and setting forests on fire, etc.? While that might seem pointless, if some jackbooted pigs killed your family and burned down your house, how is declaring war on "the government" in general any less futile of a response?



Yes. But dispatching the actual "pigs" that were present would be the first thing that would need to be done. They are the rabid dogs who follow orders blindly without questioning them - what would this mean exactly? Well it could be actuall exterminating them, or it could me showing them the error of thier ways and having them start to think and remove themselves from the employ of the government.  But just forgiving them and moving on? That is cowerdice.

This, as I am sure you know, actually happened to a man named Randy Weaver becuase he owned a shotgun that was an inche too short. I am unsure what I would do in that situation but most likely it would be....disruptive.

 

Remember, the bull, as you pointed out, could change his mood.  But as you also point out (and I must agree with you)... the Bull's best and most effective strategy would be to dismantle the entire arena and put the matedore AND the audience out on the street.


Edited by SteampunkScientist, 16 September 2015 - 07:34 AM.


#30 Myc

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Posted 16 September 2015 - 09:17 AM

I can relate Steampunk - I see your words and I've felt them in my heart more than once. 

 

While I write flowery words and speak of higher-ordered thinking and restraint, I also plant the seeds of my desired future. My goal is to finally become a man in all of this and I'm dragging my lower self along for the ride.

Some days, I think pretty well (IMHO) - many days I fail in my goals and I resort to cynicism and other poisonous mechanisms.  Each day, I start fresh even if the previous day was a disaster. My education and up-bringing are largely due to exposure to higher-ordered ideas found here on this site.

It's kinda crazy how some of us came here to learn to get high on mushrooms. Then, after mastering the skills I thought I came to obtain, I stuck around and sampled the other hors devours which were laying on the table. Now, I stay high most of the time and rarely ever take drugs. ??  It takes practice. Lots and lots of practice - taming that "conditioned identity" of which Alder speaks. It also takes failure - many, many tragic failures along with many, many humble re-beginnings of the processes of taming.

The more I practice and fail - the less I am vulnerable to failure. I'm no sage or yogi - just some hay-seed get-high who met the great "IT" one time while swimming the cosmos. Strangely, "IT" took a liking to me even though I could barely stand myself and committed "ITSELF" to the purpose of assisting me in my personal growth through the introduction of calamity, discomfort, opportunities to return to alcoholism and drug abuse - all while sparing me the worst consequences of my mis-guided re-actions to the intended stimuli.

 

Look to be loved. Seek to love others. Show compassion and see it in the world. (talking to myself here)

 

I've read volumes and volumes of information. I'm one of those "readers" - I'll read the f-ing panels on a cereal box or a bottle of shampoo (ocd ??) 

In every story - the good guys always prevail. History, fiction.......you name it. Order prevails over chaos ultimately.

There simply aren't enough bad guys to make everything as bad as they would have it. Instead, they co-opt  our desires and try to bend them to their own use (ala the Matador). Just as creation requires a great deal of energy - so does destruction. I simply don't think that the handful of evil fucktards on our planet have quite the system of control that they would have us believe. Much like Nazi Germany, their system of control relies upon us fucking each other.

 

Il19 said it pretty clearly and I'll paraphrase:

If we all just stopped worrying about what might be and started living what really is - hmmmm

The bogeyman just evaporates into a tiny dust-kitty under the bed. Easily sucked up with the vacuum cleaner and tossed right along with the other rubbish.

 

**Darkness flees from even a single, tiny spark of illumination


Edited by Myc, 16 September 2015 - 09:49 AM.

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#31 pharmer

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Posted 16 September 2015 - 09:27 AM

One can sing and dance and quote the Quran until the cows come home but the "Matadors" and the men behind the matadors don't give a shit about what you think. They are psychopaths and all the fine words in that poem, all the high minded, striving for better states of mind, etc, affect them in the way that lint affects the ocean.

 

They are evil embodied in men. What they do, and all the consequences of their actions, are evil.

 

The sooner they are dead and their progeny neutered the better off this planet will be.

 

Do people have the will power and focus to lock onto this idea and get it done? I think not. But that doesn't mean they deserve what they get. And what they get is 9-11 in a thousand variant forms.

 

And I have no doubt that either Cain or Abel was one of these people. It's been in mankind since mankind was put here or evolved here.

 

Why? now there's a conspiracy to ponder.



#32 Alder Logs

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Posted 16 September 2015 - 10:47 AM

The man with the answers:

 

 

 

gallery_131808_1351_23018.jpg


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#33 TVCasualty

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Posted 17 September 2015 - 11:04 AM

Quite true - and really this goes to the point of the saying "Revenge is a dish best served cold." When I say the most dangerous man in the world is a man with nothing to loose, I am not talking about enraged person who has lost all hold on reason, oh no, I am talking about the sort of person who knows that "forgiveness" allows them to free their heart, but also understands that a rabid dog must not be allowed to rome the streets while there are little children about, and it is up to them to rid the world of this rabid dog. There is quite a bit of differnce. The person who claims to "forgive" and then allow the rabid dog to continue is deluding themselves.

 
There's another saying about revenge that is well-worth heeding: Before you embark on a journey of revenge, dig two graves. (attr. to Confucius)
 
It's a fine line, or more accurately a Razor's Edge, between defending oneself and one's loved ones and becoming the very thing that one is waging war against. "Meet the new boss, same as the old boss" is an old saying, too and it's stuck around so long for good reason.
 
Hunting others down and killing them (as opposed to defending yourself against an immediate threat) not only seems to me to be on the far side of the line, it's also a response that's welcomed by the status quo because that's it's home turf (i.e. violence, an arena within which the keepers of the status quo feel very comfortable, and in fact demand a monopoly). That's because opening fire with a rifle, detonating home-made bombs, throwing molotov cocktails, etc. make for great TV but are ineffective at forcing any substantive change. "Much sound and fury, signifying nothing" comes to mind when I think about this type of Quixotic quest.
 
While they can be spectacular in a visual sense, such an attack merely damages the easily-repaired facade of the status quo, another subversive gets "neutralized," and everything continues as before.
 

I've been caught up in the rage against injustice, and definitely understand the appeal of bringing the fight to "them," but I also heed the implicit warning of those "bits of bone and hair that we find by the roadside;" they didn't get there by accident!
 
So don't attack the scarecrows that were designed to be attacked, give the farmer's kids copious amounts of psychedelics instead! The only revolutions that actually work (as far as I can tell) are the kind that emerge from within.
 
 

One can sing and dance and quote the Quran until the cows come home but the "Matadors" and the men behind the matadors don't give a shit about what you think. They are psychopaths and all the fine words in that poem, all the high minded, striving for better states of mind, etc, affect them in the way that lint affects the ocean.

 

If one can sing and dance until the cows come home, it sounds like one has a pretty decent life.

 

And the point (well, one of them) was that the thoughts of the matadors, etc. are irrelevant (i.e. no need to give a shit about what they think, either).

 

In any case we can't strive for the improvement of someone else's state of mind, only our own. And sure, that does not necessarily mean that we still won't get shot by a cop for reaching for our wallet, end up unjustly imprisoned (read Prison Writings: My Life Is My Sun Dance by Leonard Peltier for some particularly-eloquent thoughts on that subject), or end up suffering some other bad end at the hands of a psychopath (or of an intrinsically-corrupt society).

 

We're all going to die anyway, and it seems to me that getting my own head right before that happens is more important than removing the heads of others I deem guilty of various atrocities and what-not.


Edited by TVCasualty, 17 September 2015 - 11:05 AM.

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#34 Alder Logs

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Posted 17 September 2015 - 12:29 PM

hex43.jpg

 

Hexagram 43 of the Wilhelm / Baynes, I CHING,

or BOOK OF CHANGES*

Kuai / Break-through (Resoluteness)

 

 

 

TUI -- The JOYOUS, LAKE is above
CH'IEN -- The CREATIVE, HEAVEN is below

 

This hexagram signifies on the one hand a break-through after a long accumulation of tension, as a swollen river breaks through its dikes, or in the manner of a cloudburst. On the other hand, applied to human conditions, it refers to the time when inferior people gradually begin to disappear. Their influence is on the wain; as a result of resolute action, a change in conditions occurs, a break-through. The hexagram is related to the third month [April-May].

 

THE JUDGMENT

Break-through.
One must resolutely make the matter known
At the court of the king.
It must be announced truthfully. Danger.
It is necessary to notify one's own city.
It does not further to resort to arms.
It furthers one to undertake something.

 

Even if only one inferior man is occupying a ruling position in a city, he is able to oppress superior men. Even a single passion still lurking in the heart has power to obscure reason. Passion and reason cannot exist side by side -- therefore fight without quarter is necessary if the good is to prevail.

 

In a resolute struggle of the good against evil, there are, however, definite rules that must not be disregarded, if it is to succeed. First, resolution must be based on a union of strength and friendliness. Second, a compromise with evil is not possible; evil must under all circumstances be openly discredited. Nor must our own passions and shortcomings be glossed over. Third, the struggle must not be carried on by force. If evil is branded, it thinks of weapons, and if we do it the favor of fighting against it blow for blow, we lose in the end because thus we ourselves get entangled in hatred and passion. Therefore it is important to begin at home, to be on guard in our own persons against the faults we have branded. In this way, finding no opponent, the sharp edges of the weapons of evil become dulled. For the same reasons we should not combat our own faults directly. As long as we wrestle with them, they continue victorious. Finally, the best way to fight evil is to make energetic progress in the good.

 

THE IMAGE

The lake has risen up through heaven:
The image of BREAK-THROUGH.
Thus the superior man
Dispenses riches downward
And refrains from resting on his virtue.

 

When the water of a lake has risen up to heaven, there is reason to fear a cloudburst. Taking this as a warning, the superior man forestalls a violent collapse. If a man were to pile up riches for himself alone, without considering others, he would certainly experience a collapse. For all gathering is followed by dispersion. Therefore the superior man begins to distribute while he is accumulating. In the same way, in developing character he takes care not to become hardened in obstinacy but to remain receptive to impressions by help of strict and continuous self-examination.


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#35 TVCasualty

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Posted 17 September 2015 - 04:11 PM

On a mushroom trip some years ago I had the thought that rage (among other emotions) is like mud that mucks-up our headlights as we spin our wheels in it, going nowhere fast and only digging ourselves in deeper (to use an automotive metaphor). The Light is dimmed, we can't see ahead clearly and the faster we spin our wheels, the dimmer it gets.

 

After a while we might even start to think that the whole world is Dark, but like how the Sun is always shining beyond the darkest clouds, the Light itself is never dimmed, merely unseen. When we clean the mud off our headlights we realize the Darkness was ours alone, and new paths open up before us that we could not see before (but were always there nonetheless).

 

 

...

Pleased to meet you
Hope you guess my name, oh yeah
Ah, what's puzzling you
Is the nature of my game, oh yeah
I watched with glee
While your kings and queens
Fought for ten decades
For the gods they made
I shouted out,
"Who killed the Kennedys?"
When after all
It was you and me...

 

(Sympathy for the Devil, The Rolling Stones)



#36 August West

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Posted 18 September 2015 - 10:34 PM

I shouted out,

"Who killed the Kennedys?"
When after all
It was you and me...

 

 

People killed oligarchs for other oligarchs. The Kennedys were pieces of shit anyway ;)



#37 SteampunkScientist

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Posted 20 September 2015 - 10:37 AM

Alder said something above that goes with my saying that we may not forgive the rabid dog, and the allow it to continue to roam the streets and think we are "good". He said "the good cannot compromise with evil". Exactly. The rabid dog, even if it's "Ol' Yeller" must be put down, because there are children in the streets.

#38 Alder Logs

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Posted 20 September 2015 - 01:16 PM

 

Therefore it is important to begin at home, to be on guard in our own persons against the faults we have branded.

 

Is it evil because it is, or because one says it is.  This is a very subtle question.  No need for any answers out loud.  It is a question suited to introspection.  Both possibilities may reside side by side, but one doesn't deliver the other from being a little evil in its own right. 

 

 

Let him who is without sin cast the first stone.



#39 TVCasualty

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Posted 20 September 2015 - 02:01 PM

Alder said something above that goes with my saying that we may not forgive the rabid dog, and the allow it to continue to roam the streets and think we are "good". He said "the good cannot compromise with evil". Exactly. The rabid dog, even if it's "Ol' Yeller" must be put down, because there are children in the streets.

 

But that's ultimately just a metaphor. Most people know what the symptoms of actual rabies in an actual dog are, and when they reveal themselves rabid dogs are dutifully caught and put down.

 

The symptoms of evil are not so clear-cut, though. That's the rub. And who gets to be the arbiter deciding who is "rabid" and needs to be put down vs. who is "healthy?"

 

There are definitive lab tests for rabies, so a dog is either infected or it is not and we can determine that with a very high degree of certainty (~100%). There is no middle-ground or room for interpretation, and that sort of black-and-white absolutism is fine in the context of infections of pathogenic microorganisms. In the context of society however, that is the very definition of an "extremist" position. And extremist positions are among the slipperiest slopes to evil (or catching metaphorical rabies) of all.


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#40 SteampunkScientist

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Posted 28 September 2015 - 08:54 PM

You know... I kinda wish that post of mine had disappeared. Oh well. I still have a copy of this...

I call this "Dammit Alder, get out of my head!"

(He keeps saying stuff that I disagree with, and then later find out is true. I hate that!)



I know its all in my head,
Yes, I heard what you said,
I'm trying to let it go by...

Please don't tell me the truth,
I feel it's very uncouth,
And makes it hard for me to believe my own lies,

Oh yeah I heard what you said,
I'm less alive than I'm dead,
I'm sleep walking in the light,

If I would open my eyes,
I would soon realize,
There is more than this endless night...

And I must confess,
The more I have, i have less,
And life becomes a mad rush to consume...

I have an inkling of fear,
What is that screaming I hear,
Is it the masses falling down to their doom?...

"It is the story, untold,
That you must allow to unfold!"
A soft voice whispers to me...

Let it guide your way,
For this moment, in this day,
The now, is the only moment to be....

So, I disregarded time,
Pushed past and future out of mind,
I learned what it means to be free.
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