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Greenhouse -Walipini


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#1 Heirloom

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Posted 16 October 2015 - 03:32 PM

I came across this today doing some light reading.

This is a simple partially underground green house,

I can post some pics from Tree hugger website they also have a video .

they say its inexpensive and can be use year round.

any thoughts welcome

 

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#2 ethnobotanist420

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Posted 16 October 2015 - 07:40 PM

I've seen this design before and I think it's genius...

The ground would keep it a nice temperature year round; warm it in the winter, cool it in the summer.

I like the idea that it takes less materials than a standard greenhouse and that you can plant your crop right in the floor.

One problem I can foresee tho is a BIG one... In times of heavy precipitation would this not flood quite badly?? It would certainly have to be built in a low water table area...

I love the idea I would just be scared it would flood out...

Edited by ethnobotanist420, 16 October 2015 - 07:42 PM.

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#3 Heirloom

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Posted 16 October 2015 - 08:48 PM

a person is supposed to make a way to drain water away.

these are used in other countrys, most common in the mountains in S America.

the site is  http:www.treehugger.com/green-architecture/build-underground-greenhouse-garden-year.html

in the summer if it gets to hot they use a shade cloth and have a wood burner they open to let hot air flow up and out.
when needed they use the wood burner to heat , costing a fraction of above ground greenhouses.

they have a vid on the site. don't know if the link will work I typed it in .

thanks for taking a look, I believe the desigh can be improved on.


 



#4 Heirloom

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Posted 16 October 2015 - 08:55 PM

sorry link does not work



#5 ethnobotanist420

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Posted 16 October 2015 - 09:15 PM

I wonder how something like this would work up here in Canada... I can't see it working year round without quite a bit of heating but it would certainly extend the growing season which would me much appreciated lol

I wonder how the drainage would work... I suppose if it was built on the side of a hill (or mountain like you said) it would be a lot easier to figure out.

I really dig this idea (no pun intended heh)
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#6 happy4nic8r

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Posted 16 October 2015 - 09:38 PM

Maybe dont' drain it and have an indoor ice skating rink in the winter.

 

I can't see where you would get enough sun, unless you want a couple of hours direct, and balance indirect.

 

They show a nice yellow arrow where the sun would actually shine on to what you were growing, at that certain time of day.


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#7 Heirloom

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Posted 16 October 2015 - 09:39 PM

one thing is a gutter system to several rain barrels that when fill drains water 8 feet away.

dirt from the excavation could be used to position the GH and aid in drainage.

one side could face the south the the north side of the roof could be insulated with a silver faced foil to reflect more light in in winter, help ing to reduce heat loss. tese posted used a uv plastic roll stapled on



#8 Heirloom

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Posted 16 October 2015 - 09:52 PM

I bet you got better ideas than a skating rink, Happy thanks for getting in here. the sun angle is show on dec 21 winter solstice .
lowest point of sun and shortest length of day in winter.

also the make drainage that could be put around the outside, or a simple trench.

snow would be a problem in winter in a lot of places. would have to brush off or maybe melt off from wood burner.

 well I'm going to bed and dream of whatever pleases me.
 pece

 


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#9 happy4nic8r

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Posted 17 October 2015 - 12:47 PM

Depending on where you were, as far as into the frozen north, you might be below the frost line, not that your ground wouldn't freeze or the standing water on top of it if it was left unheated.

 

I agree that you could augment the sunshine with reflectors, and even have some solar water piped from collectors to keep the soil warm inside the greenhouse.

 

They have so many of those in Hawaii, a pholtovoltaic panel that runs a water circulating pump, and a larger water heating unit that circulates hot water inside your water heater. We hardly ever turned on the water heater and had hot water any time. Better during the day, and when it was sunny, but stayed warm all night.

 

Here in the PNW they don't have many of those, due to lack of sun I guess. On the upside, power is really cheap. I bet our 80 gallon water heater would be almost the same price as one of those 4 hole, solar assisted water heaters. Hopefully mine doesn't go out any time soon. 


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#10 happy4nic8r

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Posted 18 October 2015 - 03:34 PM

Heirloom, I lost track of the Peltier chip thread, but since you've started a new, and somewhat related posting, I have run into a question on the solar cells.

 

I have hooked 3, 5, 7, and 9 solar chips that have either 2 or 4 volts, in series to try to get at least a 12v charge to see if I can make any heat or cold with the Peltier chips.

 

for some reason they don't add up like they should, and when i hook up the Pchip, you can't read any voltage at all, either total or individual. 

 

when they are not wired together each of them reads something, but when you gang them up, they don't amount to shit. (Kind of like gangbangers.)

 

I noticed you had a larger solar panel, is this the way i have to go to get any usable current? I did get the Pchip to get slight cold with 6.5volts, that was as good as all the 9 cells I had could produce.


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#11 Heirloom

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Posted 18 October 2015 - 03:40 PM

they have a book on these greenhouses.

Happy I was thinking the same think, using hot water for a more even heating.
I have seen wood fired water heater on a solar /back to the land store.

or go solar for water and as a thermal mass collector.
In case water got indide a sump pump could avert disaster.
Made properly water should not be a problem.

a lot easier with a bobcat or a backhoe. if I could draw I would post some visual ideas,
and hope that someone might point out problems and offer a better design.

 nice dreams
 



#12 Heirloom

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Posted 18 October 2015 - 03:59 PM

Happy try hooking them in series to increase voltage . 
Hooked in parallel increases amps.

I believe you should hook solar in series, to equal battery voltage.
Positive wire to Negative wire this leave you with 1 pos and 1 neg wire to go to battery.

then run your peltier plate off of the battery.

That should solve your issues.

I always  hook those 2 panel in parallel , so I get same volts and double amps
this runs through a charge controller to the battery(s) I then draw power from the battery(s)
for 12 volt its hooked direct .

when I need 120 volts I run power from battery to an inverter that kicks out 120 AC.

  those solar panels are 2'x4' ft, 75 watts each 4.5 amps each at least and about 17V DC each

that's why I run the panels to a charge controller which essentialy puts out 12 volt but the amps are increased when the controller takes in 17/18 volts @9 amps  and puts out 12 volts to a battery.

you probably remember  W = V x A  or wattage is equal to volts multiplied by amps.

with only 2 of those values you can determine the 3rd value by multiplying  or dividing.

hope that makes sense


Edited by Heirloom Spores, 18 October 2015 - 04:17 PM.

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#13 happy4nic8r

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Posted 18 October 2015 - 04:04 PM

It does, and I understand how that all works. I did hook them in series, it just didn't add up like I thought it would. 

 

I don't have a battery in the loop, and that's probably one thing I should do, but i was just trying to get a bunch of little solar cells to add up like they should. 


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#14 Heirloom

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Posted 18 October 2015 - 04:36 PM

the battery will make all the difference . even an old battery will work at least as long as you got solar going in.

those single crystal solar panes should last 80 years of daily use. they don't really know
because the first ones made in the '40s are still working today.

in the cold the power increases above listed specs but in very high high heat there can be a slightly lower out put.

I have 4 panels I haven't got around to installing. I figure I could live off grid if I am power wise run led lights...ect

I really want to get some 12 V Lithium  batteries, very long life can be run to zero and go through 5000 charge cycles.
that's what 12 years +  and very light weight maintance free.

I have used deep cycle golf cart batteries ( which require maintance adding distilled water removing caps ans such ) and glass mat batteries and though they cost less they weigh like 70lbs or more each
and don't last but a frw year . they are to go down no lower than 50% also.

that's why Lithiums are so  much better but cost more.

 good vibe bro, look for that hat in a box this week.



 


Edited by Heirloom Spores, 18 October 2015 - 04:37 PM.

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#15 happy4nic8r

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Posted 18 October 2015 - 06:11 PM

I could use that hat right now, I'm so excited about the forest offerings!!

 

The whole groundscape is erupting with so many different shrooms, they are everywhere you look.

 

I'm on the lookout for some of my plantings, as well as Chantarelles and ______fowl of the woods, any kind.

 

They are supposed to be popular here, you just have to go when they are happening, which apparently is right now.

 

I have also found a few i don't recognize, a bunch of albino somethings, and some Safeway looking agaricus, which are probably amanita phalloides.

 

My grows indoors are also responding to the lunar, solar, motor, whatever cycles that are in alignment right now, it is a good time for a mycologist prospect to be alive!!!


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#16 Heirloom

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Posted 18 October 2015 - 07:05 PM

I don't doubt that mushrooms have a built in connection to lunar /solar cycles - genes turn on or of all connected to other environment input.

Happy good hunting for forest food.

I could really live in one of the greenhouses mentioned above, but I have lived in tents and grew weed ...ect.
Most women would be against it though- except a few hippie chicks into back to the land and a simple life.

to live in one I might make adjustments like a bed room , cook up above ground in a shed/kitchen or on a grill. outdoor oven ect.

I think about how much this would reduce stress and the money one could save.


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#17 Heirloom

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Posted 20 November 2015 - 12:19 PM

any body ever try the framing kits for a greenhouse or a shed? I see them for $50 - 80 depending on size. just brackets ,wood ..ect you provide.

thought about using fiber glass or a plastic for roof catching rain water.  the side probably the same. i was thinking about digging
down a few feet , lay a dry wall at an angle , providing head room and then use the dirt to grade around the greenhouse draining away water.

 anybody got suggestions based on experience? anything welcome open to suggestions. getting frame kit soon , buying materials every month till spring.

i want to do this right .



 


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#18 happy4nic8r

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Posted 20 November 2015 - 06:49 PM

I have built quite a few glass houses. I used to have almost unlimited supply of old windows, taken out of remodels, and insurance gigs. also acrylic skylights.

 

I think if you can find those in your local Habitat, and talk to them about taking the lot of them or something, they make a real stable frame and light opening for your structure. If you use wood and plastic, the wind, snow load, even rain sometimes can become a critical factor in the demise of your building.

 

Our rule of thumb was 4' x 8' of shear on every 20' of wall. that means one sheet of plywood, or one sliding glass door panel will keep your shit from falling over.

 

the rest you can put whatever glass or plastic you can find.

 

Roofs are another story, so to speak. they require some extra support and the more crap that can fall on them, the steeper the slope needs to be.

 

You can mount old windows, or plain glass in just about any wood or metal shape with a little caulking, and if you are at all handy with the way water ships off, you can make an airtight, leakproof structure that will serve for years.

 

A vent in the ridge is good, especially if it opens and closes so you can adjust the temps and the flow of air. 

 

Screen can't be overappreciated enough. It will attract cats who love the way it feels shredding under their claws, but insects for the most part cant' figure this scientific marvel out. 


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#19 Heirloom

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Posted 21 November 2015 - 11:16 AM

Thanks Happy I appreciate you advice. This has go me rethinking the whole project. I right away thought that 2x6 instead of 2x4's.
I though I know some great amish carpenters and maybe they can do it better if I get the materials, they got experience and my sister knows their mother and told me she has a wonderful greenhouse.

I got the window opener vents and planned oh a thermostat controlled fan at one end, maybe a small air conditioner.

I had a green house made of steel that got crushes by a tree., one that was geo dome my sister is using as a chicken coop.

 You made me think I need to put more thought into this project. Got a walk out basement with a concrete slab mabe one that is a leanto type connected to the house will be better. Don't know yet.



#20 riseabovethought

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Posted 21 November 2015 - 12:06 PM

Love the dialogue.  Its been some of my own thinking for awhile now.  I have the hill picked out and everything.  Still trying to understand how to drain it after a heavy rain, but I love the idea of making it pretty big with enough room to enjoy it appropriately.  I'd love to string up a hammock and sleep under there with my beauties growing all around me.

 

Honestly, when I think about the huge cost of a foundation for building a house, why not just dig a hole deep enough to make a natural foundation and 4 walls on a hill.  Now all you need is to treat the floor and walls, and build in a kick ass angular frame- roof with holes for windows and a door.  Dont need no plumbing or electricity. Living in a greenhouse, maybe I could finally get some of that elusive inner- peace I been searching for. :meditate:


Edited by riseabovethought, 21 November 2015 - 12:10 PM.

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