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Sustainable World? I think we can make it happen...


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#1 Il19z8rn4li1

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Posted 23 October 2015 - 07:15 PM

[Direct Link]

 

 

Good video to get people up to speed with modern CONVENTIONAL

farming insight and thought process.. 

 

 

 

 

I believe we are well past the point of evolving from this mind set. 

 

 

 

 

I've been working on building an aquaponics setup in my small greenhouse.

Its nearly to the gravel grow bed stage and to the point of getting my water up

to temp.  I already have tilapia.. plenty of them actually lol

 

 

BUT, i believe that with aquaponics and some really nifty modern spins to the

already amazing systems we have today dealing with aquaponics, we can 

expand that land suitable for "FOOD" production at least DOUBLE. 

 

Use our pastures and field with extreme strategy and honorable stewardship of the

land and forests and flora and fauna.  

 

 

a good buddy of mine has said to me a few times, "dont give up on field crops just yet"

 

I say back to him, "im not giving up on them, im just tired of how people are doing it all wrong still

and keep falling back on conventional wisdom to hope that the big companies are going to

save their farms.. or that the government is going to step in a give out more subsidies.."

 

 

I feel that we should utilize our LARGE lands, the fields the forest and the prairies, with

reflection to how mother nature has always tended them.

 

Example.. Cows are herding mammals.. they are meant to TRAVEL distances,

to jump from watering hole to watering hole or feed plot to feed plot.. WHY?  Because

they never eat up everything 100% and they stay in an area long enough so

their wastes build up to unhealthy proportions, their herding allows the lands

to CYCLE their wastes and regrow the plants that were eaten up.

 

Animals are cycled thru lands and never stay in one spot to deplete that areas resources.

Mother nature never allowed that... IE: you get a lot of bunnies.. your going to end up with more

bob cats or raptors to keep those bunnies in check.   "Checks and balances" Go figure. 

 

 

 

 

Now with this aquaponics though... and with how society is today... this is a HUGE opportunity

to take advantage of the more desired clean healthy food that is grown in sustainable methods.

 

 

There is just a SERIOUS list of things that one much set into motion and align just right

to succeed with a large scale high productive aquaponic setup that can be deemed

an example for the rest and use as a benchmark.

 

 

 

I believe that the collection of local restaurant organic wastes is a MUST,  I have a plan

to talk with my local councilmen about writing up a program that will enable restaurants to sign up

for and being signed up will enable a tax benefit for them.  

These food wastes can then be feed to Black Soldier Fly larva, special nutrients can be added

to the feed bins that will help give the larva a more completely nutrient profile,

once these babys are mature, you just simply feed them straight to the fish, chooks, ducks... etc..

 

for tilapia though and other more herbivores, these BSFL are only a lil supplement to their

more veggy based diet.   But this isnt hard to get either... All of the produce that is harvested

from the aquaponic system is PREPPED READY TO EAT AFTER A RINSE.  So that there is

VERY MINOR trimming of the veggies before being able to eat them...

 

This is also done with the fish,,, NO fish is sold WHOLE... only fillets.. because the rest

of that fish is going to be fed to the BSFL then those are fed right back into the system... chooks...

fish.. etc...   (perch can survive souly from the BSFL i believe... )

 

So for the herbivore fish, all their food is literally the waste pieces of harvested veggies, ground 

up and ran through a pellet machine(they run around 10k+, but the amount of things you can make

into pellets is amazing and their uses are prettty endless... dog/cat foods... fish food..

plant food(press neem/kelp/crab meals together bingo bango))

 

Not to mention the earth worm aspect of the whole system.

 

 

 

For the aquaponic veggie portion, thast the zone that will determine the FISH WEIGHT capacity 

of the system... IE:   100x 1lb fish or 25x 4lb fish,   its the WEIGHT of fish total that really matters,

not just the fish count.. bigger fish eat a lot more food.  

 

With a system Im working on, im planning on running tilapia for 12 months, to get the FULL SIZE

ones, 4lb fish just about, then will get roughly 1lb of meat off that fish.   remember all scraps 

and waste is recycled into the system.

 

 

(the BSFL step is a cannibalism prevention stage, rather then grounding up the waste fish and making

them into pellets, I discovered the BSFL and its amazing abilities and the fact that it just makes sense, because Fish eat BUGS mainly... or PLANTS... of course big fish eats little fish too.  

not to mention that the BSFL are extremely effective at processing RAW organic matter, it doesnt

need to be rotting like how worms require that, so this just saves time and an entire whole of

not having to ground up those fish wastes.)   

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Im making this thread to see what other peoples' opinions are on the subject and any

experience anyone might have in the growing field of sustainable production. 

I havent even touched on the HEMP field aspects and how that can benefit things

greatly.. so this topic has a shit load to have uncovered still of course.

 

 

what are maybe some things you might have noticed in your local community that

points toward a urge to become more sustainable or possibly what other people

might be doing in your area?

 

 

One of the biggest things I noticed in my area was that in the big city, they

made this community urban garden, they started it about 3-4 yrs ago and i wont lie..

its a piece of fucking shit and kind of a joke...

 

like ZERO funds were put into play to make anything happen with practicality taking

into mind.  I drive pass the garden and can clearly see that it really isnt going

to help support many people at all... 

 

I feel that its a mistake to take these urban land plots and think its going to be

possible to grow a lot of food on it in a conventional sense...

 

I mean.. they ACTUALLY USED A DAMN HORSE DRAWN PLOW... let along

the fact that they were plowing in general...  completely waste of time IMO, and should

only be done when its dreadly calls for such an action.. and IMO... not much would

convince me I need to plow my garden.   Because years after NOT plowing.. I am able

to scoop deep into the soil with my bare hands then i have ever been able to when I plowed.

 

these lil plots of land that are inner city, should have greenhouses put up.. solar system

and utilize aquaponics...

 

they would require less water, less work.. less power dependent... and all the while

producing MORE FOOD with over all less INPUT.

 

 

 

 

I have plans to set forth some pretty interesting gardening practices these next few

seasons, and Im hoping that I can get my politician on board in a community sense, because

ill surely express to them that I have community pull and community = VOTES... so... yea lol 

 

 

Everyone is all about this stuff... but noone knows where to start or even how to.

Gardening for 7 yrs now and growing plants for over 10, I feel pretty comfy with

starting to take some steps to get things going on a much large scale.    Not

quite to the point of cycling mammals on some 10-20 acres of mixed forest and prairie 

but most def to the point that i can handle 1 acre with a number of greenhouses for

my main inputs would from local restaurant wastes and my fish food. 

 

 

 

 

What you guys and gals think of this stuff? 

 

 

 


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#2 Skywatcher

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Posted 24 October 2015 - 10:57 PM

I love this. To maximize production and continually enrich the environment that produces it, you have touched on what I consider the entire crux.

 

"I feel that we should utilize our LARGE lands, the fields the forest and the prairies, with

reflection to how mother nature has always tended them."

 

 

The key to a successful ecosystems, is all based on, and leads back to the single most sacred and perfect concept of sacred geometry, the circle. 

You seem to be planning to maximize this concept, so much more efficient than the current burn, deplete, and extend with chemical wizardry, (cleverly disguised poison) then discard.

 

If all the farming and food production industry, learned from natures example of millions of years of balance, we could feed the world in far less area of production. Indeed, we may have no other option in the not so distant future as the repercussions of mankinds illusion that we can take and do what we want to this Earth, and not experience a rebound becomes an undeniable truth.

 

The weather will change, soon and permanently. The machine that drives weather on this planet, the ocean currents, have already begun major changes, and I am not referring to El Nino, but the world wide alteration of the main currents.Without the kind of project planning you are speaking of, put into action on a world wide scale, there will be great hardship and famine at the very least.

 

The entire world is one very small, and balanced circle of life. The only one we presently have. We need to emulate the circle of ALL returning to the living cycle. Lessons are to be learned from the relationships of predator and prey. Neither exists without the other. Nature wastes nothing.

 

I live on the edge of massive urban sprawl, adjacent to untouched natural wilderness. I see the contrast daily.

The most encouraging development i have seen in the past weeks, is the city ordinances restricting bee keeping have been changed to realistic levels. Some restrictions as to distance from your neighbors for hives, are now realistic. There is hope that bees can again start an incline again, if cared for and protected from the stupidity that began the decline. I become a dangerous predator if my hive is threatened. I will never be able to harvest honey, as it is in a massive block wall, but I have now educated all my adjacent neighbors that the bees are not aggressive, and do a major part to keep the gardens tended. They all know not to use poisons anywhere around my property.

 

Now if I can only get the stupid idiocy of killing any predators that come down the mountain to be seen as a natural reaction to drought, and have people see we need all the creatures and plants on this earth, that would be a true accomplishment. I maintain my own little "safe zone" but sadly that is not enough, but more than nothing.

 

I have helped others in creating balanced aquatic ecosystems. I have designed my own so nothing is wasted. All the fish waste goes back to enriching the soil. You my friend seem to have a good grasp of the need for a cyclic self perpetuation. I would like to see the entire farming system revamped to quit wasting the precious resources, and recognize the value, indeed the need, of putting back to complete the circle.

 

People who think like you will be the leaders to our future ability to feed ourselves. Lead by example numeric. I applaud you. 


Edited by Skywatcher, 24 October 2015 - 11:45 PM.


#3 Il19z8rn4li1

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Posted 25 October 2015 - 10:45 PM

Thanks Skywatcher.  Love the feed back my friend. 

 

 

 

 

 

Noticed some typos in my first post that might come off a lil confusing.

I corrected them in RED below.

There are a few other typos, but they IMO seemed minor and people

should be able to make sense of it :P   

Im not perfect lol

 

 

Example.. Cows are herding mammals.. they are meant to TRAVEL distances,

to jump from watering hole to watering hole or feed plot to feed plot.. WHY?  Because

they never eat up everything 100% and they NEVER stay in an area long enough so

their wastes build up to unhealthy proportions, their herding allows the lands

to CYCLE their wastes and regrow the plants that were eaten up.? 

So for the herbivore fish, all their food is literally the waste pieces of harvested veggies, ground 

up and ran through a pellet machine(they run around 10k+, but the amount of things you can make

into pellets is amazing and their uses are prettty endless... dog/cat foods... fish food..

plant food(press neem/kelp/crab meals together bingo bango))

And dont forget you can make wood pellets ... aka FUEL for a sophisticated heater system :P

Wood pellets with waste oil drip is a very cheap effective easy fuel source to obtain. 

 

I mean.. they ACTUALLY USED A DAMN HORSE DRAWN PLOW... let along

the fact that they were plowing in general...  complete waste of time IMO, and should

only be done when it DREADFULLY calls for such an action.. and IMO... not much would

convince me I need to plow my garden.   Because years after NOT plowing.. I am able

to scoop deep into the soil with my bare hands WHILE i have NEVER been able to when I plowed.

 

 


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#4 Alder Logs

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Posted 26 October 2015 - 09:33 AM

Three books to read: Plowman's Folly, by E. H. Falkner, and The One Straw Revolution, by Masanobu Fukuoka, Secrets of the Soil, by Peter Tompkins and Christopher Bird.

 

Whatever way the world turns, and whatever physical changes any one of us have the power to make, or a chance to accomplish, the change for sustainability we will need is discovering what sustains, and what does not.  No physical change will, or could ever, sustain.  Mastering the maya is an illusion.  When wrong is seen, it is only a judgment from a personal perspective.  This is why we will not change the world at large.  For even the destroyers see worlds of their own, with only their own values, from only their perspectives.  When one knows oneself as true being, how to proceed is no longer a question.  So, we might continue to argue and advocate for changing the details, only our own peace with what is will clear our views.  It may be counter to reason, but it is reason that has created the seven point five billion worlds, of which, we see only one.


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#5 Il19z8rn4li1

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Posted 26 October 2015 - 11:01 AM

Three books to read: Plowman's Folly, by E. H. Falkner, and The One Straw Revolution, by Masanobu Fukuoka, Secrets of the Soil, by Peter Tompkins and Christopher Bird.

 

Whatever way the world turns, and whatever physical changes any one of us have the power to make, or a chance to accomplish, the change for sustainability we will need is discovering what sustains, and what does not.  No physical change will, or could ever, sustain.  Mastering the maya is an illusion.  When wrong is seen, it is only a judgment from a personal perspective.  This is why we will not change the world at large.  For even the destroyers see worlds of their own, with only their own values, from only their perspectives.  When one knows oneself as true being, how to proceed is no longer a question.  So, we might continue to argue and advocate for changing the details, only our own peace with what is will clear our views.  It may be counter to reason, but it is reason that has created the seven point five billion worlds, of which, we see only one.

Thanks for the feedback Alder :P  

This is exactly what I want, the opinions and insight of those that believe along the same lines, just as you

just suggested by the mentioning of those books  ;)

 

The moment I saw your post with the book titles, I was like NO SHIT, i totally forgot to mention the almost endless list

of books that are imo... a must read for this kind of thinking regarding food production of the world...

I 2nd Alders suggestion of those books, they are GREAT READS!!! 

Ive read all those books, and actually just finished OSR about a month or 2 ago.

 

I totally agree with your premise.   And I am glad that I am NOT along in this thought process and that 

I dont step many steps forward without the approval of my peers and the over all "RIGHTNESS" of my

decisions I choose to make.

 

 

To expand onto your comments, I wholeheartedly believe that once we combine a 1% mass of animated

beings with collective thought processes that each and every one checks and balances each other...

we will reach the point that I am, and many others, are striving for, I consider yourself to be part of

that wave toward the greatness of purity and abyss and clear mindedness.

 

 

Ill be the first to admit that I got some torturing demons within... BUT i knwo they only stem from

that perspective that I have on the REALITY of the world that is, people are starving... thats not made up and 

freeing myself within and becoming clear and pure, will still leave behind the people that are starving... lol

 

I do believe, HIGHLY, that one has all the ability in the world to "change ones mind" to then

create their world around them...

 

BUT, then again, I still cant help to notice those that suffer and those that just are having

shades pulled over them as a weight to hold them down.

 

 

 

 

Well... I wanna lift that shade and allow them to fly. 

And I want others to stand right there next to me pushing for that same desire but also 

hold the vigilant attitude to assure that wrongs are not being committed(bit task i know... but whats

life without big dreams right??? )

 

We are of one and we will never reach enlightenment without the collective minds of all.

 

Of course there are the monks that spend ALL OF THEIR LIVES meditating in the heights

of mountains and nearly unreachable temples.

 

You know why they are in such remote locations?  I have a theory...

These beings ARE OF enlightenment and have been around since the beginning of

"(insert your choice of word here)"

These beings understand all the stuff you suggest and all of the oneness that is.

They ARE in tune and are aware and the reason I believe they ARE, is to

counter act what ISNT.

I view those that are of the oneness and purity are here to counter weigh the scales.

 

one side has all the BS of the world.. all the ego... all the "what some deem negative"

 

on the other side is the enlightenment.   But I view it like this.

 

The shitty stuff is made up of feathers... a huge pile of dusty feathers.

 

All the positive, all the good, all the oneness and unity is made up of Neutron Star Matter

(the most dense substance known to man at this time I believe)

 

 

the volume(get that... VOLUME... lol, i hope some pick that up) of the feathers is great

but it lacks density, strength, integrity, genuineness of shape and character(shape shifter comes to mind here)

 

but that Neutron Star Matter(NSM) is of extreme certainty and density and strength and you require

only a tiny TINY TINY amount of it to completely BALANCE the scale.

(not to mention that 2 neutron stars colliding has the ability to create all that is in the universe... gold

is only made in a neutron star sized explosion and heat...we are all made of "STAR STUFF")

 

Drop a lil bit of NSM into that pile of feathers, and the fall will be as if there were

no feather in the way, dropping freely through the bullshit being effecting in no way at all. 

Displacing every single piece of feather in its path.

 

Some people believe we need balance in everything and that there HAS to be an opposite to

everything.

 

I dont believe this entirely and I fully believe that we can topple that scale and push the balance

to one side, the CORRECT SIDE that everyone agrees on by way of viewing real facts and info and to not have

any misconstrued information to sway opinions or view points by way of manipulating information and perspective

in a schemer/scammer fashion.. Those peeps are eradicated... lets face it lol.

 

IMO the feathers will never and CAN NOT EVER weigh or influence

more then the Star Matter(star matter would be the Monks that meditate and hold down the fort

because most people dont know how to meditate properly, myself included, im trying,

the feathers are considered the PTB, world corruption, the sustaining of poverty/war/etc...etc.)

 

deep down inside, NOT A SINGLE soul on this planet that HAS empathy within it/them

wants to proceed with the wars and sustained sickness...

 

 

These monks hold down the fort, these monks dedicate ALL of their lives(notice that comment)

to making sure that they ARE holding down the fort.   They are of realness.  

 

That unrealness can only attempt to keep the scale balanced(and it goes to extraordinary lengths to achieve this),

for if it ever gave up the "fight" the monks and enlightened beings will have finally won the great battle of

Good vs Evil

aka... Real vs Fake... aka Yourself vs Mirror(reflection) aka... Light vs Dark aka 3D vs 2D(dont confuse this

with the other dimension in thsi thread as we can get way off topic lol)

 

 

Like you said Alder, change only comes from within and thats true true true... but if those

that wish for change DONT KNOW how to look within and the ones that know and are with the masses

(monks are doing their duty and are solitude for a reason)

and DONT teach and only preach... then we are all doomed to the same

damn repetitive cycle that these worlds have been bickering about forever....

 

 

 

 

Some take offense to this comment.. but take it how you wish, but if you take it with negativity... then
i believe that negative came from within YOURSELF and not projected from me.... 

 

Tesla gave in on the fight because "they" made him out to be a mad scientist... hahah yet "they"

are utilizing almost every one of his discoveries today... go figure lol

but he was crazy right?? lol   Maybe crazy is what is required :P

 

 

 

 

 

"I will change the world first by way of feeding people healthy clean food,

and a 2nd time by way of teaching them how to do it themselves,

for that is the first step to thinking clearly."

 

if you cant think clearly. we are already lost.

 

^^ think about that comment, then look at the world.... can anyone honestly say that its way off base???? lol(rhetorical question)

 

 

 

EDIT-  Sorry Alder, spelled your name wrong a few times in my post, i just edited them all.


Edited by Il19z8rn4li1, 26 October 2015 - 11:18 AM.

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#6 Alder Logs

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Posted 26 October 2015 - 11:25 AM

What is it to think clearly? 

 

All the facts do not, can not, agree.  The nature of information is it is incomplete.  The truth leaves nothing out.  Facts and information are not truth.  Wars are fought over which version will prevail (though none ever has for long). 

 

Do not strive to be enlightened.  Only see who is seeing. 

 

Only with a quiet and empty mind, does come a clear apprehension of what is, and clear thinking arise. 

 

Be as a monk, here and now, and farm as you will. 


Edited by Alder Logs, 26 October 2015 - 11:26 AM.

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#7 Il19z8rn4li1

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Posted 26 October 2015 - 11:45 AM

What is it to think clearly? 

 

All the facts do not, can not, agree.  The nature of information is it is incomplete.  The truth leaves nothing out.  Facts and information are not truth.  Wars are fought over which version will prevail (though none ever has for long). 

 

Do not strive to be enlightened.  Only see who is seeing. 

 

Only with a quiet and empty mind, does come a clear apprehension of what is, and clear thinking arise. 

 

Be as a monk, here and now, and farm as you will. 

 

 

Clear thinking... id have to say would be to be able to think for yourself and rationalize whatever you like


Edited by Il19z8rn4li1, 26 October 2015 - 11:58 AM.


#8 Heirloom

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Posted 27 October 2015 - 02:32 PM

I like aquaponics, I like catfish.
I got an old mother earth new that , documented a catfish grow in barrels for individuals.

I think we can!


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#9 Il19z8rn4li1

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Posted 27 October 2015 - 02:58 PM

ok everyone.

 

Lets talk a lil about this aquaponics, since its one of the major concepts and ideals of this thread.

 

 

I dont know nearly everything about it and dont know nearly all the science behind it either.

BUT i AM making my own system, so i AM doing SOMETHING, not just reading and talking like

im know what im talking about..... lol

 

 

Over all jist of it for those that dont know and about in the shortest way i can possibly think to explain

what aquaponics is in a very clear manner is :

 

It's a method of growing FISH and PLANTS within a SEMI-CLOSED LOOP system;

that utilizes microbes to break down FISH WASTE into PLANT FOOD;

which in turn CLEANS and sustains a healthy fish growing environment;

with very minimal system inputs which consist mainly of Fish Food and Top Off Water.

 

 

 

Now there is of course way more to the story then that about.

 

From my reading and experimenting, I have a mini aquaponic setup with 9x 1-2inch baby tilapia in it growing

basil and thyme on the top.   Its amazing.   You can smell when the water is dirty and when its has been cleaned up

by the bacteria. 

 

It will have zero smell when its clean.   Sometimes youll smell a "fish slime" smell... thats normal when you have

fish... they have a slime layer covering their body and yea.. it has that smell... thats normal.   but should never

be STRONG... if you got strong fishy smell.. examine your fish and check all your levels.  ammonia.. nitrate nitrite ... etc..

 

 

 

but from reading and watching A LOT of yourtube vidoes over the past year or 2, I have come to the conclusion that

in a "GOOD HIGH PERFORMING" aquaponic system, one must concentrate on their SSA- Specific Surface Area

 

The HIGHER the SSA you have the BETTER your system will be, the faster it will clean out the fish waste and toxins that

build up from them pooping and peeing in the water they literally live and breath... thats not cool.. lol  you want

pretty clean clear water for your fishies. 

 

some fish might prefer dirtier water... but that also effects flavor of that fish, so you can keep that in mind. 

(wanna get that distinct catfish flavor.. i believe youll wanna have some mucky mud at the bottom of your tank, but

thats just my opinion)

 

 

 

So back to this SSA. 

Im going off the top of my head... BUT i believe this is what I remember..

For every POUND of fish in your system your going to need at least.. 25-50 sq ft of surface area.

 

So some membranes out there have like 290 sq ft in a CUBIC FOOT of this media..

another example.. Pea Gravel has a SSA of around 90sq ft per CUBIC FOOT. 

 

this is just going to be a SSA post :P

 

 

tilapia for instance, you want about a 3-4 maybe a 5lb fish,  they yield around 1/3 fillet. 

So to grow 1lb of tilapia meat a 3-4 lb fish will do. 

 

if you need 25-50 sq ft per LB of fish,   thats roughly 75-200 sq ft that is required

to have enough bacteria need to clean up after that fish in a TIMELY fashion after

it literally SHITS THE BED lol (fish literally shit and piss where they eat and sleep lol) 

 

ok so we know now that 75 to 200 sq ft of surface area is required to grow 1 fish weighing

3-4 lbs

 

so your grow beds where your plants are located are filled with media..  im going to use PEA GRAVEL

since i already said its SSA is roughly 90, meaning that in 1 cubic foot of PEA GRAVEL there is roughly

90 sq ft of surface area for microbes to inhabit. 

 

so if you wanted to grow that single tilapia in a 10 gallon tank and just cycle

that water through a 10gal grow bed. 

 

so in that 10 gal grow bed you can add 1cubic ft of pea gravel or roughly 7.5 gallons worth and that will be 15 sq ft

over the minimum requirement that would be 75 sq per lb. 

 

the water from the tank is plumbed up to the grow bed, and more times then not, gravity is used to return

the water back to the grow bed. 

 

 

 

 

thats aquaponics in a nut shell with very basic figures used breaking it down to the requirements of a SINGLE

VERY HEALTHY fishy.   So far, people have scaled this up way up and have only noticed things getting better

and easier.. i image that the larger the scale and more volume you have of everything the better.

 

 

but yea, ill talk more about this im sure.. i gotta run


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#10 Heirloom

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Posted 27 October 2015 - 05:32 PM

nice post, I like my catfish clean tasting not like they came out the des moines river.

you talk about pea gravel and the ssa , why not  a lava rock with way more surface area? ok red lava is high in iron bad for some fish but black lava rock .

I really would like to try but can I get Talipia in a pet store? probably not

what can I do as an experiment with a large food grade blue barrel you know the big 50 gallons + , a water pump and a large bio filter?

 yu know more than I do , be nice to have a fresh healthy fish to eat



#11 Heirloom

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Posted 27 October 2015 - 06:36 PM

I forgot to say I am well educated in hydroponics, I find it easier than soil growing.

I got ebb&flow, 12" wide NFT  from crop king as well as  tubes round and square , an aeroponic system and
water farm units and a bit more stored here and there.more than I can use.

I got a pond kit I bought new from a friend never used and a water fall to go with it.

I am sure I can get fish shipped to me, I would rather put together a small system than buy one.

got any pics of working systems?
 


Edited by Heirloom Spores, 27 October 2015 - 06:37 PM.


#12 riseabovethought

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Posted 28 October 2015 - 12:00 PM

https://mycotopia.ne...s/#entry1246613

 

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#13 Alder Logs

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Posted 28 October 2015 - 12:28 PM

I hear that goldfish are bony.


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#14 Heirloom

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Posted 28 October 2015 - 01:42 PM

they may be bony but pressured cooking softentens the bones so you can eat them,.

a search on growing catfish in a barrel has showed me a lot of info. in a 55 g barrel
a guy can start with 40 fingerling cat fish, yielding 60lbs a season,
catfish eat & put on weight quickest at 84F, they eat very little in water temps in the 40's.

tilapia and bass can be grown in a similar manner. tilapia require 9 month to be harvested.

a screen over the barrel can serve to put scraps on, then flies land on it,  maggots fall through the screen providing food.

I left out a bit of info , like the water let out of a catfish barrel can be applied to a garden, trees or a lawn.

I think some plants might be more suited to aquaponics than others

I am mostly posting on how to raise fish for one or 2 people to help them through the year.

I really would like to grow fish use the waste water to feed food crops .


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#15 Juthro

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Posted 28 October 2015 - 01:49 PM

When I pressure can salmon I add a tablespoon of lemon juice to each half pint jar. The citric acid combined with the pressure cooking dissolves all of the bones. I have never found a single bone in any of my home canned fish, but I have found plenty in the frozen stuff.

Pickling will also dissolve the bones, that is one of the reasons pickling herring and sardines is popular, as they both are full of very fine pin bones that make them difficult to eat otherwise.
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#16 riseabovethought

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Posted 28 October 2015 - 02:13 PM

That was not the video I was looking for.  I saw one with gravel being the filter between the fish waste and fast growing lettuce.  It was a good simple approach one could use with any type of fish, and any type of green leafy veggies.  The catfish -barrel really sounds good, but you may want wide more than deep, so you can grow lots of whatever.  The poetry... the harmony.. the mesh is so beautiful isnt it?


Edited by riseabovethought, 28 October 2015 - 02:14 PM.

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#17 Il19z8rn4li1

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Posted 28 October 2015 - 02:17 PM

EDIT PS- I just edited my colors... what color is better for the eyes... that pink salmon color or the light blue?

 

 

 

https://mycotopia.ne...s/#entry1246613

[Direct Link]

Most def read through that thread and have been keeping up with it.

I've watched all of Larry's videos, very smart guy, love how he presents too. I agree with everything
he says, it's not rocket science lol He has quite the nice botanical tea garden with that
personal smaller scale aquaponic setup, all those are amazing additions to foliar sprays.

I found him from looking up rocket mass heaters and GH heating in general.
This video got me hooked and is what made me go thru his videos. Learned a lot from
him and I know how im going to implement some of his style and methods. Funny I use all
the same controllers and timers :P Those are very popular now haha ;)

Just the topic of HEATING and COOLING of greenhouses will be a topic in itself within
the realm of this thread, at least that's the main premise of this thread, "Sustainable World".
Takes into consideration just about everything that is efficient and sustainable with
main concern with practicality, purpose and function. Feel free to add your input, insight, and resources.
Not limited to WHAT HAS ALREADY BEEN DONE, but would also love to brainstorm together
to expand on what has been done to see if it can be even better.
Of course not to take it to the point of reinventing the wheel...
Year Round production is a goal, scale shifts with season changes im sure.

[Direct Link]





 

nice post, I like my catfish clean tasting not like they came out the des moines river.
Hehe I havent had catfish in forever. lol of course dont make the water dirty, but maybe even just a layer of
pea gravel would probably be better at the bottom of their tank... That would add some bonus SSA also, beneficial
bacteria is good for fish slime layer :P


you talk about pea gravel and the ssa , why not a lava rock with way more surface area? ok red lava is high in iron bad for some fish but black lava rock .
Ok, this is my reasoning behind the pea gravel. Get ready :P I love this stuff btw :D it makes me all giddy inside lol
Especially when you have been studying it for so long and you continually get those epiphany moments :P


Always Keep this red comment in mind, I have thought this way for YEARS in order to make sure I stay on path.
aquaCULTURE is easily 20-30 yrs AHEAD in understanding "WATER BIOLOGY" compared to aquaPONICS or even HYDROPONICS.
Always think about how they setup their systems and the things they are trying to accomplish. Then consider
the more advanced aquariums that have referiums in the filtration loop and look at WHY they added that portion, but NOT ALL
aquariums have them? What work is the referium doing? (rhetorical questions)

Pea Gravel is Smooth, why do i want smooth? Because I want the bacterial film to be able to be
eaten off by the worms or with a lil agitation be sloughed off, so that there is a cycling population of bacteria able
to recolonize that fresh zone on the pea gravel. In short, my goal is to have a media/medium that worms will be able
to make their way through in order to act as clean up crews and "nutrient recyclers". "My"(adopted from others' techniques)
style of an aquaponic system is always trying to figure out how to allow the animals and bugs of nature to do my work for me...
think about that.
Pretty much like One Straw Rev... how can I do LESS WORK but get better or equal outcome.

Remember aquaCULTURE vs aquaPONICS

My goal in mind here is to prevent the buildup of
OLD DEAD bacteria that could potentially become stagnant and create an anaerobic zone where
NO3- (nitrate) consuming bacteria will thrive, this is counter productive in an aquaPONICS system because
then your bio media is literally robbing your plants of available NITRATES. (some plants assimilate ammonium(NH4+),
but I wont get into that just yet, but mainly perennials favor the ammonium if i recall correctly, keep that in mind)
These lil buggers are responsible for turning Nitrates into Nitrogen Gas which is suppose to just enter
the atmosphere then.

Im sure there will be some stagnant zones, but far from many.

The lava rocks have extreme amounts of surface area yes, but not so much the kind of SSA I am looking for
particularly. Lava rocks and some of the other EXTREMELY high SSA bio media available out there are geared
for aquaCULTURE and aquariums. They want those anaerobic bacteria that grow within these medias
to pull out those Nitrates, but even then, you notice all aqurists doing water changes if they dont have a
referium or a really dialed in setup, aka replicating mother natures near perfect model.
They they still do water swaps, they dont have enough SSA in their setup IMO... because once you reach that point,
all you should have to do is ADD WATER.

AquaPONICS doesnt have water changes ever, just water top off.
you can argue that there are "water changes" in nature, but id wager those are more so just mixing measures to
assure the health of the system and inject O2 for the bene bactiera, not really to just pull away the toxic stuff but
to aid those creatures that are able to break down that toxic stuff... get my drift?

The down side to these types of SUPER HIGH SSA medias is that worms can't get to the centers to clean shop.
So, being of an aquaponic mind, I must re-think this aspect of media choice not just based on SSA but also based
on its ability to be CLEANED.


There are LIVING ROCKS within aquariums for the main purpose of cleaning the water of toxins.
We want to develop a kind of LIVING BED for aquaponic plant growing media/design that is concentrating on
preserving the plant available nitrogen so that within 1 cycle of the system, from FISH TANK back to FISH TANK
all the higher toxic ammonium(NH4+), and Nitrite(NO2-) be converted into Nitrate(NO3-)(which is less toxic to fish
but once accumulation happens it will eventually effect the fish), all the while having that Nitrate pass through a path
of grow beds, hopefully achieving total Nitrate assimilation before the water returns to the fish tank or bring it down
to safe fish levels. (now this whole process is being referenced to the moment of fish feeding, because after
fish are fed, they poop and pee and increase the Toxin levels drastically, this is the moment that you want
your system to be able to perform as a Nitrification Machine making instantly available nitrogen for the plants.

IE: you feed your fish which feed your microbes which microbes feed your plants, but the microbes are the big
deal cleaners though lol

Someone has recently said to me that it doesnt work like that....but I beg the differ. You can test it by simply
pour a bunch of ammonia in your water(without fish of course) and the system with bacteria should start breaking
it down instantly, all youd have to do it test your source water then test the return water constantly after you add the
ammonia to see what levels are readable from the return. If you never get any traceable ammonium or nitrites...
then your system is completely breaking down all the toxins within 1 cycle, adding MORE ammonia will of course
get to the point that you know what the system can handle. There are people on youtube right now with BIG BIG
setups that within 15-30mins of feeding their fish, their toxin levels are right back down to normal.

Average flow rate for a good aquaponic setup, 1 water cycle ever 2 hours.... Thats a lil slow imo lol Im going
with 1 water cycle every 30-60mins.


Hope that answers your question :P


These guys got a really nice nitrogen cycle going with their setup.
Im not advertising their ZIP GROW towers though... i personally dont agree with them lol They have their place in HOT CLIMATES
for sure though, but water add back is increased a bit.

https://www.youtube.com/user/BrightAgrotechLLC

I really would like to try but can I get Talipia in a pet store? probably not
Not sure, you can order them online, finglings about 1inch go for 50cents a pop.

 

what can I do as an experiment with a large food grade blue barrel you know the big 50 gallons + , a water pump and a large bio filter?
dude here has a good video. He even has catfish :P

[Direct Link]

 

yu know more than I do , be nice to have a fresh healthy fish to eat
I dont know any more then what people are doing on youtube, Ive learned a shit load from youtube, probably the MOST from
youtube because some places people seen to not wanna share all the details.. but youtube, I feel people share
information in spite lol :P

Just get a jist of things first, and well check out what items you got on hand to utilize to maybe make a FREE setup for yourself :D

 


Edited by Il19z8rn4li1, 28 October 2015 - 02:23 PM.

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#18 Il19z8rn4li1

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Posted 28 October 2015 - 02:25 PM

When I pressure can salmon I add a tablespoon of lemon juice to each half pint jar. The citric acid combined with the pressure cooking dissolves all of the bones. I have never found a single bone in any of my home canned fish, but I have found plenty in the frozen stuff.

Pickling will also dissolve the bones, that is one of the reasons pickling herring and sardines is popular, as they both are full of very fine pin bones that make them difficult to eat otherwise.

This is about right there at the top of one of the more important tasks of sustainable world :)

 

Cant wait till i start canning meats and fish :) :)


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#19 Heirloom

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Posted 28 October 2015 - 02:26 PM

with salmon being born in fresh water can they be raised, in fresh water?



#20 PsyBearknot

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Posted 28 October 2015 - 02:44 PM

This has been a great read.

I need to go back and re read it again.

I like the black soldier fly larva for feeding. I'd also suggest growing Azola and duckweed for feed as well.
Azola has the added benifit of helping rebuild the ozone layer
Also fixes nitrogen out of the air into water making the water better to use for the plants.
Talk about selfsustainable right there. Feed and a green manuer source.




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