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Sustainable World? I think we can make it happen...


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#21 Alder Logs

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Posted 28 October 2015 - 03:39 PM

with salmon being born in fresh water can they be raised, in fresh water?

 

I believe yes, at least some species.  But you will probably get something more like a trout as your product if raised in a tank.  I searched and read that the Atlantic salmon (Sebago, when landlocked) and the sockeye (Kokanee, when landlocked) will sustain in fresh water.  I don't know about the Sebago, but the Kokanee I have caught were trout-sized and the meat, trout-like. 


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#22 Il19z8rn4li1

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Posted 28 October 2015 - 03:40 PM

This has been a great read.

I need to go back and re read it again.

I like the black soldier fly larva for feeding. I'd also suggest growing Azola and duckweed for feed as well.
Azola has the added benifit of helping rebuild the ozone layer
Also fixes nitrogen out of the air into water making the water better to use for the plants.
Talk about selfsustainable right there. Feed and a green manuer source.

Thanks for mentioning the duckweed. water crest is right there with the duckweed, but doubles as

human food too. 

 

with salmon being born in fresh water can they be raised, in fresh water?

I dont know anything about salmon.  If i was interested in growing them though, Id do some research on them

first.


Edited by Il19z8rn4li1, 28 October 2015 - 03:56 PM.


#23 Juthro

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Posted 28 October 2015 - 04:42 PM

When I pressure can salmon I add a tablespoon of lemon juice to each half pint jar. The citric acid combined with the pressure cooking dissolves all of the bones. I have never found a single bone in any of my home canned fish, but I have found plenty in the frozen stuff.

Pickling will also dissolve the bones, that is one of the reasons pickling herring and sardines is popular, as they both are full of very fine pin bones that make them difficult to eat otherwise.

This is about right there at the top of one of the more important tasks of sustainable world :)
 
Cant wait till i start canning meats and fish :) :)


Agreed, it is a great way to preserve your food with out having to be dependent on refrigeration. Being able to preserve your harvest, be it be meat or vegetable, to prevent spoilage is a huge step to sustainability. As we all know, a successful garden can supply more food then you can eat before it goes bad. And if you were to butcher a large animal, the same is true. With out some form of preservation, you will end up with a lot of waste from either.

Being able to preserve your harvest with out being dependent on refrigeration or electricity is an added bonus of pressure canning.
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#24 Heirloom

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Posted 28 October 2015 - 04:43 PM

Thank Alder & ll19z,

its interesting to know than on the east coast they have gmo salmon on fish farms that some 
say if they got loose into the ocean they would destroy natural salmon though breeding
and other things from gmo.

any ways it would be awesome to grow some nice fish.



#25 Heirloom

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Posted 29 October 2015 - 11:35 AM

watercress is a very valuable human food, not especially common in the USA.
I understand that tilapia like water around 90F good for some areas, not for others.
I have seen that people also grow tilapia in barrels. I have never eaten tilapia but will try them soon,
I expect I will like them.

I like crayfish, crawdads, mudbugs, fresh water lobster, they like cool water.
Better in a small pond than a barrel.

a year round fish growing project might want to rotate fish  for the season.

 
 



#26 Alder Logs

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Posted 29 October 2015 - 11:41 AM

 

...might want to rotate fish...

 

C'mon boy, roll over. 

 

Sorry.  Suffering from a vivid imagination.


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#27 Juthro

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Posted 29 October 2015 - 12:01 PM

HS, tilapia are very good eating, I am quite fond of them. If you like fish at all, I think you will like them.
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#28 Il19z8rn4li1

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Posted 29 October 2015 - 12:40 PM

watercress is a very valuable human food, not especially common in the USA.
I understand that tilapia like water around 90F good for some areas, not for others.
I have seen that people also grow tilapia in barrels. I have never eaten tilapia but will try them soon,
I expect I will like them.

I like crayfish, crawdads, mudbugs, fresh water lobster, they like cool water.
Better in a small pond than a barrel.

a year round fish growing project might want to rotate fish  for the season.

 
 

 

 

tilapia are easy to grow. 

and imo... if you can grow one fish, you can grow any kind of fish...

 

like mushrooms, they are all the same, just different parameters are required... nothing is hard

or complicated about it.  Make the environment and they will grow healthy.

 

 

 

the temperature ranges a specific fish prefers has its degrees of growth within that range

along with its spawning temps.

 

 

 

Usually the warmer the water(with respect to what the fish PREFERS) the faster the

growth rate, fish are cold blooded(minus the recent discovered warmed blooded fish that is monstrous)

So when they are warmer, the bacteria within them is more active, allowing their metabolism to work

more quickly and effectively, this is why you'll see fish "sunning" or usually crowd around a warm spot/source

 

 

Tilapia is a very mild flavor fish, really flakey and just damn over all GOOD FISH.

My personal favorite is yellow perch and walleye, talk about amazing FLAVOR!! lol I think the

walleye tastes the best.    Talking fresh water now :P

 

 

 

 

in an aquaponic setup, the temperatures between FISH WATER and PLANT WATER

have to be kept in mind.

 

not everyone agrees on temps for plant water, so i just go by whats COMFY to my wrist.

If its COLD to my wrist, its probably to chilly for the microbes.

 

You wanna keep the microbes in mind the most.  they are the workers, without them... everything

gets all jacked up way to fast.

 

 

I like my plant root temps to be around 65-75, any lower and microbes really slow down

and any hotter the plant roots might not like it so much.. of course there are exceptions.. lol

 

dare I forget to ever mention that :P

 

(tilapia LOVE higher temps, they can handle 80s no problem, but youd want to consider

dropping those temps a tad when they enter your grow beds, this is a good spots to start

with towers in your system, this will drop water temps a lot as the water falls, evaporative cooling)

 

Now for the fish.. well.. it would benefit to grow a fish that likes the same temperatures as

your plant roots and microbes.  

 

MOST fish will grow in these paremeters btw...

but its possible to get a lil fancy with things and design plumbing in such a fashion

to take into consideration you want the water temp to drop a lil bit before entering grow beds.

 

BUT.. what some people might do that others might not do because of well.. laziness IMO...

 

is the COLD shocking and CLEANSING of the of the fish before you fillet them.

 

 

this is the stage when you harvest all mature fish and put them in a separate tank with

cooler water then where they grew out at.

 

what this does, is signals to the fish that seasons are changing and they will produce

a little more fat, this is HEALTHY FAT btw.. ever hear of "FISH OIL" ??  got the omegas and what not.

You dont feed the fish during this time, you allow them to clean themselves out, you can keep that 

waste in the system then, rather then composting it later.

 

im interested though, if this stage adds a few grams more weight to the fillets.


Edited by Il19z8rn4li1, 29 October 2015 - 12:53 PM.

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#29 Heirloom

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Posted 29 October 2015 - 01:29 PM

very nice info , I never ate a fish I didn't like.
eating fish is better than taking fish oil supplements.

I look forward to trying to grow fish , With winter coming
on here it's not the time to start but plan for the spring.

what does anyone think the best greens to grow with the fish water/ nutes
green beans, lettuce..... I an thinking that some war=ter can be used on fruit trees like cherries and apples, black berries.

out of likes but I will get back here , I am very liberal with my likes

 


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#30 Alder Logs

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Posted 29 October 2015 - 01:41 PM

When I first was led to discover Viktor Schauberger in the mid '80s, info on him was very scarce.  Known as, "the water wizard," in his time, this Austrian forester was miles ahead of where most are today in regards to the nature of water as a living entity.  Now, there is a ton of info on him on the internet, gettable by just by searching his name.  My entry was from my gravity research, but I came to elevate him to hero status as an environmentalist.  As a matter of fact, the first organization with "green" in its name was founded by him in 1950, "the Green Front," in Austria.  But, I'm sure he'd have some suggestions for optimizing the life forces active within these aqua-culture developments. 


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#31 Heirloom

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Posted 29 October 2015 - 02:03 PM

Wow Alder , I believe water is a living entity, its part of living systems ever where.
 cut down the rain forest , then the environment changes , less trees& plants, less water. The animal
migration is affected the whole system is dependent on water and plants.

Sailors are know as bad ass guys, I would rather be on a US Navy ship than on a pirate ship, LOL.
@ least all the Navy guys I know are tough guys and good friends.

 


Edited by Heirloom Spores, 29 October 2015 - 02:06 PM.


#32 Heirloom

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Posted 30 October 2015 - 09:21 AM

Aquaponics/fish farming could be incorporated into community garden projects. teaching people how to provide high quality food for themselves. 
There are Farmers Markets held in so many cities, never seen local grown fish, probably due to regulations. There are ways around those, I've seen people raise rabbits and sell them live  offering to clean them , getting around regulations.

I could see aquaponics /fish farming catching on if programs or classes where taught on the subject. Through parks & recreation, botanical /gardening societies, community colleges , community improvement groups ect.



#33 Il19z8rn4li1

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Posted 30 October 2015 - 06:43 PM

sounds pretty familiar lol

10mins video, real good quick.

 

im mainly concerned about having those minerals, not so much about

cutting out the whole wheat stuff... but will log his talk.

 

[Direct Link]


Edited by Il19z8rn4li1, 30 October 2015 - 06:50 PM.


#34 Heirloom

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Posted 07 November 2015 - 02:42 PM

I just are my first tilapia , awesome. I am hooked.


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#35 Juthro

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Posted 07 November 2015 - 03:26 PM

I was fairly certain you would like them HS. They are one of my favorite white fish, I think I still prefer halibut, but not by much. And I don't think you can grow your own halibut very effectively. :)
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#36 Heirloom

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Posted 07 November 2015 - 03:57 PM

I love them, but the temps to grow at home are high enough to require solar heating  or another source.

I live in Iowa about 41 degrees north, hot in the summer but bitter cold in the winter, I expect you see worse.

I have thought of mini wind mills that can run heating element, in the winter, under $400 to start.

we have only 1 trout stream in the state and it is highly guarded, brown trout. I recall my dad with stringers of rainbow trout as a kid
in California.

Never had the pleasure of Halibut, but I will seek it out. Don't expect to grow saltwater fish.

 I am on a mission to try all kinds of different foods, fish ,vegs everything.

 thank you


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#37 Alder Logs

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Posted 07 November 2015 - 03:57 PM

I like sole better than halibut but haven't ever tasted walleye yet, and so will reserve judgment.


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#38 Juthro

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Posted 07 November 2015 - 04:11 PM

Alder, I am sorry to say I have no Sole... :)

I've never had walleye either, but some fresh bass sure floats my boat.

#39 Alder Logs

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Posted 07 November 2015 - 04:17 PM

Never had that many bass under my boat.  If I did, I'd get me a Bass-O-Matic.

 

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#40 Il19z8rn4li1

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Posted 11 November 2015 - 03:33 PM

I love them, but the temps to grow at home are high enough to require solar heating  or another source.

I live in Iowa about 41 degrees north, hot in the summer but bitter cold in the winter, I expect you see worse.

I have thought of mini wind mills that can run heating element, in the winter, under $400 to start.

we have only 1 trout stream in the state and it is highly guarded, brown trout. I recall my dad with stringers of rainbow trout as a kid
in California.

Never had the pleasure of Halibut, but I will seek it out. Don't expect to grow saltwater fish.

 I am on a mission to try all kinds of different foods, fish ,vegs everything.

 thank you

 

 

 

Im 41.3 Degrees North

 

I have a underground fish tank and about 2/3s of the water sits below ground level.

So it stays at a steady 45-55 thru out the year.

 

Once I get my heater situated and heating my water, Ill run my fish tank around 78-80 degrees.

 

Heater is going to consist of a boiler style setup, Wood burner with coil wrapped around it and utilizing

a heat exchanger.   Set the pumps on thermostats, and I should be able to keep my water temps

within the 75-80'F mark. 

 

maybe ill be able to get away with having higher temps, OR ill just move to growing perch, which

like cooler water and I personally like perch more then tilapia.   :P

 

The tank is within a greenhouse also, so the sun coming into the GH really helps things out too in the cold times.

 

 

 

 

 

 

I like sole better than halibut but haven't ever tasted walleye yet, and so will reserve judgment.

 

Walleye and Yellow perch are both my GOAL fish for production.  

BIG TANKS !!!! ;) ;) 

Maybe throw in some sturgeon for some caviar :P 


Edited by Il19z8rn4li1, 11 November 2015 - 03:35 PM.





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