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The Case for Taking Velikovsky Seriously


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#21 Myc

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Posted 23 April 2017 - 09:34 AM

I am about halfway through Worlds in Collision.

 

Thus far the author has not lost me and I've noticed some really interesting things which tie into my own research on the subject of the global history of mankind. 

 

I would like to point to some of the seeming coincidences. In the interest of brevity and ease of review, I'm trying to keep this short. 

 

Coincidence #1 - The Deucalion Flood - Noah was told in a dream by "angels" to build an ark.

Coincidence #2 - The Exodous - Moses seemed always to be in just the right place at exactly the right time.

Coincidence #3 - Destruction of Jerico - Again.......exactly the right place at exactly the right time.

Coincidence #4 - Destruction of Sodom and Gommorah - Again........Lot and family guided by angels

Coincidence #5 - The arrival of Cortez in MesoAmerica - Perfect timing for alignment with native prophesy

And on and on and on..........

 

Does anyone else see the statistical improbability that all of these "Coincidences" are all just that - coincidences? 

Given that these events (global disasters) occur on a cyclical basis as recognized by many peoples in history, does it not make sense that (perhaps) we are being watched by technologically superior beings who dress-up as "angels" or "messengers" and deliver periodic cues to select individuals in order to serve their own ends?

 

Perhaps one could think of the arrival of Cortez as a willful insertion. That his presence was somehow guided/aided toward the the destruction of the Aztecs by facilitating his arrival to the continent at just the perfect time in order to exploit the greatest possible chance of "success". 

The same could be said of the Hebrews and their Exodous from Egypt - pretty much the whole damn story relies upon a system of near perfect timing (being in exactly the right place at precisely the correct moment). 

 

Just taking note and wondering.........


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#22 Alder Logs

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Posted 23 April 2017 - 10:52 AM

Thanks for bumping the thread.

 

The examples were of survivors and victors; a limited group who write the history.  Whether the destruction was of war or cosmic catastrophe, the non-survivors and vanquished powers were selected out of the information pool.   They could have said they were guided by a hunch.  If the hunch was wrong, they weren't around to write or pass down any history. 

 

I, myself, think of "cyclic" in terms of regular cycles, and the record of cosmic catastrophe seems anything but regular, at least in terms of calendar timing.   In Velikovsky, there were two big shake-ups 52 years apart, 3500 years ago (and even the days in a year changed along the way--whether by way of a variance in orbits or rotation rates) in other source materials, these two were following the flood, dated by Solon, Plato, and Edgar Cayce at 10,000 BCE.  Around 2,700 years ago, there was a temporary 15 year cycle of perturbations and catastrophes associated with Mars, resultant from the earlier 52 year cycle of Venus/Typhon upheavals.  Since then, we have enjoyed relief from interplanetary upsets, preferring socio-political catastrophes, where that's the only game in town.  Whether Nibiru/Planet X is on its way back to show us there is a cycle we've been missing, I don't know.  

 

So, in the universe at large, and the solar system locally, cyclic ages are to me not a proven.   What I see in the record is spastic at best, in the wider view.   It seems, there is no clockwork universe, when we need periodically to reset our clockworks, only to forget we have had to do this repeatedly.   It's best to stay flexible and be ready to either have your line ended, or advance the next theory of history, as its next survivor, telling it to your progeny in the terms only you will understand.    Tell the kids, It was a feathered serpent, honest!


Edited by Alder Logs, 23 April 2017 - 10:56 AM.

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#23 jkdeth

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Posted 23 April 2017 - 11:04 AM

I think we have both, cyclic and random.

#24 Alder Logs

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Posted 23 April 2017 - 11:15 AM

And the cycles change somewhat randomly, and somewhat predictably.  It's all in a blip in the spectrum of time.  Things spin faster as you near the center of the vortex.  If you stay in the vortex, you will move in relation to that center.  You will spin on more than one axis, and surrounding strata will be pulling you one way and another.  It seems that way to me, way out on this particular arm, at this particular distance from galactic center.  The local news will always fill the headlines.



#25 SteampunkScientist

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Posted 23 April 2017 - 06:47 PM

Myc, with respect to the "angels", I assume you are aware of Solomon's "Keys" and ritual magick whereby angelic entities (Raphael, Gabriel, Michael, Azrael,and Metatron) are called forth.

There are many who claim to have seen and talked to these 5 and others, even today.

Who knows?

#26 Myc

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Posted 24 April 2017 - 08:21 AM

Myc, with respect to the "angels", I assume you are aware of Solomon's "Keys" and ritual magick whereby angelic entities (Raphael, Gabriel, Michael, Azrael,and Metatron) are called forth.

There are many who claim to have seen and talked to these 5 and others, even today.

Who knows?

 

I am aware of ritual magic at a cursory level but I tend to think of it more in terms of "quantum physics". 

The process of calling on the names of "God" or the "angels" is discussed in "The Poetics of Ascent - Theories of Language in a Rabbinic Ascent Text" by Naomi Janowitz. The book is rather chewy for its size and I haven't managed to finish reading as of yet. 

 

I also possess copies of "The Essene Gospel of Peace" - Books I - IV along with "The Essene Science of Fasting". 

"The Moses Code" - James F. Twyman - discusses some of Moses' experiences (pre-Exodous leading up to the Exodous, etc.)

"The Lost Gospel Q - The Original Sayings of Jesus"  - claims to be the first Gospel

"Apocalypes of Baruch and the Assumption of Moses" - supposedly written in 70 AD. 

"The Bible Jesus Read" - Philip Yancey

 

I've been on a bit of an investigative mission for the past several years. 

Lots of stuff didn't make the cut when the Bible was being quilted together. After all of these texts were outlawed and slated for immediate destruction upon discovery by the Roman Catholic Church - it's a blind wonder any of them still exist. 

 

So to relate this to the Velikovsky hypothesis.......

It's very dangerous to find yourself in opposition to the established paradigm if you enjoy the ease and comfort of our modernized world. 


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#27 jkdeth

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Posted 24 April 2017 - 09:45 AM

Ritual Magic is very powerful tool for control of the masses. Most popular form is called Catholicism.

#28 Alder Logs

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Posted 24 April 2017 - 10:37 AM

This recent thread of discussion brought me to mind of this post by SPS in Pears of Wisdom.   Are we to be advanced only by what we know?  What do we truly know of what we know?   Where will our cleverness lead us? 



#29 Alder Logs

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Posted 04 September 2018 - 10:16 AM

I found these Y'ubes yesterday where someone, and some bots, read the correspondences between Velikovsky and Einstein.   I found these very enjoyable to listen to.   It could have been done technically better maybe, but I enjoyed this greatly nonetheless. 

 

[Direct Link]

 

[Direct Link]

 

[Direct Link]




 


Edited by Alder Logs, 04 September 2018 - 10:19 AM.


#30 pharmer

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Posted 04 September 2018 - 11:14 AM

This recent thread of discussion brought me to mind of this post by SPS in Pears of Wisdom.   Are we to be advanced only by what we know?  What do we truly know of what we know?   Where will our cleverness lead us? 

I love this quote. Probably paraphrased " The problem is not what we don't know, but that so much of what we know is wrong"


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#31 SteampunkScientist

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Posted 08 September 2018 - 07:10 AM

All I want to know is, why did they get Colonel Sanders to read this? :P

#32 Alder Logs

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Posted 10 September 2018 - 12:46 PM

Newton Einstein & Velikovsky Audio book:

 

Tides NOT Governed By Moon?

[Direct Link]



#33 Alder Logs

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Posted 10 September 2018 - 08:16 PM

Here's a discussion that focuses on biblical references, ignoring all the traditions from all around the world that Velikovsky pulled into his books.  It is still a good listen for what it is. 

 

[Direct Link]


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#34 Alder Logs

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Posted 11 September 2018 - 10:16 AM

I posted a video here that I thought was going to be a good introduction to Velikovsky.   By the time I finished it, I decided the speaker was going to confuse his listeners about the overall work.  Besides that, he offers too many personal opinions that to me revealed ignorance.  So, I have pulled that video.

 

Instead, here is a lecture by Velikovsky himself.

 

Mankind In Amnesia

Lecture, 1966

[Direct Link]


Edited by Alder Logs, 11 September 2018 - 10:48 AM.

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#35 SteampunkScientist

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Posted 11 September 2018 - 12:07 PM

Einstein had read Velikovsky's books, a couple times according to correspondence between them.

But apparently the claim that the book was open on his desk is actually not true.

Edited by SteampunkScientist, 11 September 2018 - 12:15 PM.


#36 Alder Logs

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Posted 11 September 2018 - 01:30 PM

But apparently the claim that the book was open on his desk is actually not true.

 

I have read that, but wonder what the writer's biases had in that.   The respect between V & E is clear.   That Einstein died when he did, just when the pivotal point concerning Jupiter had been finally decided, is a twist of fate that changed much of what could have become.   The internet seems to be a different change in this time, though Velikovsky isn't here in the flesh to see it.   I see many people cherry-picking from V. these days to make their theories work.   I personally don't think V. got a lot wrong.   The most recent axis shift, and the geological record, being the more recent of the catastrophes V. outlines, is the most sure for me.   What the modern theorists who use V. still can't handle is the 2700 years since the Sun returned 10 degrees in its path.  Too much for even the Graham Hancocks.    The brain cells fry, but the written records and the geology won't conform.  So, be sure to read Earth In Upheaval too.


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#37 DonShadow

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Posted 12 September 2018 - 12:11 AM

That lecture really drove it home. His conviction is palpable in the closing lines. I think that he may have placed a little too much emphasis on the particulars. It is sufficient to understand that humanity has suffered from various catastrophes, and that this directly correlates to disconnection from ancestral land, tradition and diet. This is just obvious. Remove the source of memory, and you get a static cycle until the problem is corrected. In this case the solution is the global shamanic ritual called social media. Alder have you considered making an audiobook of WIC?

Edited by DonShadow, 12 September 2018 - 12:15 AM.


#38 Alder Logs

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Posted 12 September 2018 - 10:07 AM

Alder have you considered making an audiobook of WIC?

 

I am a too poor of a reader for this.    I listen to much audio because reading is still an effort, due to dyslexia.  Even in that, I have read WIC six times.   It's also too bad that I have pretty crappy recall and short term memory.   Velikovsky's material weighs heavily in my holistic overview of cosmology, cosmogony, and physics, which is way far from today's scientific canon.    If I were ever to put an effort together, it would be to write this up.   Having no credentials, and worse, being a high school dropout, the work would be dismissed instantly in the hallowed halls of the academe.   But there is the pull, because the vision I have is a fairly coherent one (in my view alone, possibly).  

 

Sometimes I wish there were someone who could help by finding all my forum posts and edit them into this book I would write.    Having this ADHD brain with a dyslexic input/output program, with little in the way of organizational chops,  writing that book seems a distant prize, and I ain't getting any younger, and then there's the demands of survival.   But, WTF, I don't know what's in the cards anyway.   In all of it, I try to keep my worldly desires at the level of detachment that would not require more incarnations on the hamster wheel of karma.   I guess I am content to write that book, or not. 


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#39 DonShadow

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Posted 12 September 2018 - 11:36 AM

I hear ya, Alder, the struggle is real. I wonder if your reservations about being under-credentialed really reflect the modern predicament. These days more and more people are learning to self-educate and information spreads very quickly amongst grassroots supporters. I suspect that there are many people who would help to proliferate your work, should you be able/willing to muster the oomph the put something together. Even a YouTube channel with spoken word content could go a long way. The key is just to make the content absorb as effortlessly as possible.

Anyway, I don't mean to pester, it's just something to think about. Sometimes there is only one person on the planet who can say a particular important thing... who knows, maybe your fervour for the subject warrants your public contribution. Its not as if important scientific contributions are ever made within the walls of the castle anyway, that's where the status quo reigns supreme... you gotta make some noise and bust down those walls Alder!
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#40 SteampunkScientist

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Posted 12 September 2018 - 01:53 PM

You know, Homo Sapiens were once a family of diverse sub-species... but now there is just us.  I wonder if some of this might have something to do with the loss of other "types" of "Humans" that once walked this land...

 

Either that, or we just killed them all... as we are pretty good at doing.


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