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If God made us, then who made God?


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#1 riseabovethought

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Posted 03 March 2016 - 11:39 AM

This is another question i stumbled around with, coming from my 7 year old, this morning on her way to school.  Then she asked me another one.

 

Is Jesus God?  Why do some people think Jesus is God?

 

Stumbled around with that one too.  It reminded me of all those giant billboards all over South Carolina that say Jesus Is Lord.  It reminded me how many people do associate Jesus with God, as if they are the same 'entity,' which, they sortof are...the same way we are all god.  I told her Jesus was teaching us that we are all God's children.  Her eyes glassed over.  We sent her to a church school and now its becoming more confusing for her than helpful.  Maybe I can walk her through it. 

 

It also made me think about the comparison of how so many others think Mohammad was God.  Prophets and Jews and war in the middle east.  Forgiveness and love is nowhere to be seen.  Churches here are no better, helping themselves first and foremost.  Ugh.  Where did we go wrong?


Edited by riseabovethought, 03 March 2016 - 11:50 AM.

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#2 Alder Logs

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Posted 03 March 2016 - 12:41 PM

No word is what it says. 

 

All names are names of God.  

 

All is Brahman.  

 

Some might bow their head and say, "Great Mystery." 

 

Some pretend there is authority in fickle words. 

 

Some must simply laugh.

 

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#3 LiveShareDie

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Posted 03 March 2016 - 01:12 PM

Man, the fact that you sent your kid to a religious school means you care.

 

Now, explain to her your understanding. Connect on a human level. As parent to child.

God speaks through you. I guess. What do you feel and think?

Your strengths and weaknesses? As a human being.

 

One of the wonderful parts that I've found in Christianity and very few other established religions....

Is a commitment to fragility. To human weakness. To the 'sinfulness' of the flesh...

 

Very similar to Buddhism. Our senses want ...and want. And want.

Prayer is similar to meditation. Etc etc. Im going through these things myself.

 

In answer: Who made God? We don't know.

 

P.S.

Just wait until she gets to be a teen and you have to explain the Nephalim consorting with Human women.

 

"The Nephilim were on the earth in those days, and also afterward, when the sons of God came in tothe daughters
of man and they bore children to them. These were the mighty men who were of old, the men of renown. An dem Godz fukt us gud."
 
LOL. Basically, seriously, I tell them,
 
"No one knows. No one. This is what I think, and I'd be glad to hear what you, in turn, come up with..."

Edited by LiveShareDie, 03 March 2016 - 01:16 PM.

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#4 niemandgeist

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Posted 03 March 2016 - 03:16 PM

Perhaps that which can be called God arose from random events that we are yet incapable of comprehending, some aspect of nature that transcends what we presently know of the universe. Perhaps it is the case that what we may call God gave way to the creation of what we know as the universe, and it was through more random events that life as we know it came to exist.

 

Or, perhaps, there is nothing really God-like, and it's all nature after all, but occurring on such a grander scale or scheme than our brightest minds can conceive of.

 

Fear of the unknown is primal, yet from such fear, as we slowly begin to understand it, perhaps the notion of God came into our collective minds. Making order from chaos, perhaps we took that fear and directed it to respect of the unknown aspects of nature, hoping that it might resemble us in some way, that we might eventually come to fully understand all that is.

 

I see the term God as being quite loose and widely open to individual interpretation.

 

I wonder if this God might simply be one of many consequences of nature as we presently do not understand, something that isn't truly special or alone that gave way to things being as we can perceive them.

 

I also do wonder if there might possibly be one true source, or one "God".

 

It's really a moot point, I feel, but on a personal level I do believe that it's healthy to ponder.


Edited by niemandgeist, 03 March 2016 - 03:19 PM.

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#5 Heirloom

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Posted 03 March 2016 - 03:17 PM

man I have been losing posts all day my second try.

God has always existed. Jesus is the son of God born to a women. Called God with us. He came to make a way for man
to be forgiven , as he taught to forgive others.

Mohamad is a prophet of Islam not a god. The muslims believe Jesus will come back to bring peace, Jesus is a prophet in Islam
 the son of God in christianty. The jews await the Messiah.

Teach you kids at home read 15 -30 minutes from the new testament then discuss or a story out of the old testament..

Live what you preach. 

I do not find the use of mushrooms or cannabis incompatable with being a Christian.  hope this posts


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#6 Heirloom

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Posted 03 March 2016 - 03:47 PM

another reason I believe is one disciple felt such remorse he hung himself - Judas

The others were put to death and could of saved themselves if they would deny Jesus was the son of God.
10 were killed and john exiled to solitary confinement for life.

These guys did not die for a lie.



#7 Alder Logs

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Posted 03 March 2016 - 04:03 PM

I and the Father are One.

 

 

Hey guys, what's with the boards and the nails? 

 

Guys?  C'mon guys.  Guys? 


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#8 Heirloom

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Posted 03 March 2016 - 04:14 PM

All the Jewish animal sacrifices related to the Messiah  as a symbolic sacrifice of Jesus, my favorite is the

2 birds  put into a clay pot  ( representing the body ) one birds neck is ringed and the blood poured out, the second bird is dipped in the blood and set free. This represents Jesus dying for the sins of mankind.

Christians do not do sacrifies as it would be offence as Jesus
Was the Human sacrifice .
 



#9 dpwishy

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Posted 03 March 2016 - 04:36 PM

I am going to answer this through the perspective of your post title,
and whats written in the OP.
This has nothing to do with me replying to you or your belief,
but more a way to talk of two different questions which were asked between the topic and Original Post.
 
The highest understanding of the divine, always breaks down to paradox.
Read the post signature under my posts, this is a clue to this very question.
 
Why god is so amazing, is because its never changing.
It is, always is, and ever will be.
If we need to ask who created "it", 
we are failing to miss how amazing this being is and why it is worshiped.
 
Nothing real can be threatened, as nothing unreal exists.
Only love exists, and it always will.
There is nothing but unconditional love, or what I call God.
This can never be threatened as everything else is an illusion.
Nothing unreal exists.
Meaning, in the end there is and always was, just love.
 
Herein lies the peace of God....
 
I wrote an intro to one of my blogs that pertains to this, 
Ill post it here, its written in allegory,
but explains why we experience everything but Love.
 
When we say who created God, 
maybe the more fair question is, 
who created everything else?
As God is what has ALWAYS existed and is why it is seen with such aww.
 

 

They were two very distinct promises made by both sides about what would happen when we ate the fruit of knowledge of good and evil. The serpent claimed that we would be Gods and God claimed that we would surely die. Not a single lie was ever spoken. The serpent did what it promised, through the dance of light and dark, the dream of duality, we forgot who we were to realize who we are. It is only in this remembrance that a true grasp and vision of how great we truly are can be achieved. The serpent made Adam a God, for he showed Adam that he IS GOD! 

And God never lied either. A tear fell upon its face as you made the choice, the original Sin. For now the Eternal was made finite. The perfect, imperfect. You believed the calling of the serpent, the lie that was never spoken. For you did not understand that you were God already and the bait of thinking you could become an even greater God, set you on the journey to the realization of who you are. It was a trick played on the Ego. A trap God knew it would fall for eventually. As only one thing can be counted on from the ego, imperfection. God knew eventually from in its falling, the Glory of God can be Realized. But in this realization, the deathless will be forced to die. 
 
This entailed a never ending cycle. The imperfection of the ego always eventually falling for the trap that it can be God, only to find out that this was THE tool used to show that it was and always will be God. The trickster was played at his own game and what remained is what is. Love. 
 
The bible talks how Adam fell under a great sleep, no where does it say that hes awoken. It is my hopes, through these words, that the beginning of that awakening can take place. Rise Adam and Eve; for you never left the Garden, you have and always will be whole. Remember this until you choose to forget once again and the dance of eternity will go on forever.
 
I think Christ, is gods consciousness.
God is everything,
and the everything cant go inside of itself,
as it is everything.
What it can do, 
is send the consciousness of that everything into a vessel.
I believe Christ to be the consciousness of the father or creator.

If you read the allegory written above, 
we see that it is our own choice that created everything but love.
Why Christ is so important is,
God knew we couldn't get out of this illusion/dream we created ourselves.
Even after telling us it was a bad choice,
even after giving us the love and opportunity to understand that ourselves,
it knew we couldn't ever get ourselves out unless it showed us the way.
 
This is where the Christ is important.
And lets be honest,
there have be hundreds if not thousands of Christs.
Most live in silence, some stand out throughout history.
Why Jesus, who walked with the consciousness of the Christ,
was so important was because it showed humans how to walk the walk,
not just talk the talk.
And we are talking through the most horrific suffering and example of.
There will never be a "harder" level to play in this game we created,
so god played that final level for us to show us it is possible.
This is the love that is God.

Do you see why he died for our sins?
As it was our original sin that created everything but what existed, love.
And now in doing so, we have to experience everything else possible to know love is the only creation.
That means someone has to play that final, most horrific level.
As all levels must be played and beaten before we can say love is the only creation we choose to create.
 
We started the process and it must be finished,
all will march home prodigal sons proclaiming love is the only creation.
That we choose to only create love just as our father chooses.
Even though it was our choice to come, to create everything else.
The father loves you so much that it played the hardest level and the final level needed,
so this dream can end.
I am not to sure we could have played it ourselves and in not doing so, would have been here forever.
 
Without this guide, this inspiration, this role model.
I dont think humans would have figured out how to undreamed this dream of separation.

When I say Christ, we can put Krishna in here also.
Please don't think this is owned by a certain region or people.
Culture has it explained it many ways.
The Christ has written us a story throughout history if we follow its path throughout culture.
But the incantation through Jesus is very important for the final lesson he showed.
As this final lesson was unconditional love at its highest expression.

Whats very special is,
God loved you so much that it created a dream for you to experience this in.
Its all illusion, it knew your choice was irrational.
Even though you had to experience everything in contrast of love to know what love is now,
he allowed you to experience it in a dream that you will wake up from and realize it never existed.
This is true unconditional love when understood.

In divine friendship,
your brother,
-wishy

Edited by dpwishy, 03 March 2016 - 08:30 PM.

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#10 Heirloom

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Posted 03 March 2016 - 04:37 PM

Alder I respect you and have learned from you , please  say more. I know the execution  is a downer, A human sacrifice and resurrection is
hard to believe for many:  but life is  special and consciousness mystical as far as I understand.

Please respond as you may teach us

 


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#11 pharmer

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Posted 03 March 2016 - 04:51 PM

I'm sticking with the O.P.

 

The more important question than who created God would be

 

Why did Pre-God create God? Nothing happens for no reason. What is the reason?

 

Of course this simple exercise wipes out every inch of organized religion and every one of mankinds' musings and assertions about what God is and intends. Ergo I predict my reply will get little traction. People want to believer so they do. And when challenged to prove their assertions they start spinning. Pretty soon they spin up entire religions and belief systems.

 

IF there is a Creator in the sense that most of mankind has accepted as an explanation for our garden planet and the Bigger Than Words universe He's too big for our self serving brains to compute.


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#12 Alder Logs

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Posted 03 March 2016 - 05:21 PM

Alder I respect you and have learned from you , please  say more. I know the execution  is a downer, A human sacrifice and resurrection is
hard to believe for many:  but life is  special and consciousness mystical as far as I understand.

Please respond as you may teach us

 

 

I could not presume to teach.  Rather, since there really is nothing to learn, no thing or knowing to accomplish, as I was helped, what can be done in this vein is pointing.   If I were to presume even to point, I would proceed in accord with what is real to me, as I am.  I would offer it only as I can, which would only be availed to other expressions of the one consciousness as they could be reached.   Perhaps it can even happen here and now without any public executions.  

 

The pointing is this, you are already as a son of God.  There is no getting there.   How can you get where/what you already are?   What happens is we emerge from a formative experience that tells us from every side and perspective that we are isolated and separate from All that Is.  This is called, "conditioning," and we all get it.  Jesus got it.   The Buddha got it.  We all get it, growing up in this form.     'All that Is' makes a fine definition of God, though we might see, even this is an unsubstantiated limitation on the source of all the definers and their definitions.

 

And so, if we are already it, all there is to do is see what hides our realization.   And, if it is beyond definition, it is beyond, and possibly eclipsed by, what it is in us that defines and so comprehends.   So once again, I will repeat Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj's words:

 

The discovery of truth is in the discernment of the false.
You can know what is not.

What is - you can only be.

 

In the words of Sri Mooji:

 

To say, "I am not God," is blasphemy.

 

 

And so, what is it that eclipses ourselves' true being?    What could it be that stands in our way?   Is it simply the ideas we have of what we are, what is, ideas of what God is?  But then, we have come to have much faith in ideas.   Some say all of creation is a thought.   How else can one identified as only a thinker see things, understood or not?   Could there be any greater personal sacrifice we might make than to cop to not knowing, not having even an ability to encompass All that Is as a knowledge we could somehow pretend to get?   Can we give up our identification with the part of us that wants to know, when the terms by which it can know arose inside such a limitation? 

 

Seeing All that Is as oneself, is seeing All that Is as All that Is.   Could we leave any discernible expression of It out, upon seeing the Oneness?

 

We don't get there by loving our neighbor as ourself, but we love our neighbor as ourself by truly being here as we are (I Am).


Edited by Alder Logs, 03 March 2016 - 05:43 PM.

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#13 Heirloom

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Posted 04 March 2016 - 12:15 PM

 taking about 250 mikes taught me that we are all one, I am no different than the people next door. I understood
why people did what they did . They did not understand that we are all one. They behaved as they had been conditioned
by parents ,society  ...ect

Our beings/ soul , the I AM is the same, only we are in different vessels/bodies we were brought up different
in all kinds of ways  that gives the illusion of us being separated individuals. When in fact we are one.

mind expanders like LSD , mushrooms, peyote..ect  teach us the truth. Some need them and some don't.

 I asked my whole family to do an acid trip to give us understanding and bring us closer together.
They refused , can any of  say they asked  family to do acid or mushrooms - parents -children Uncles +Aunts as a group trip.

Peace


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#14 Heirloom

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Posted 04 March 2016 - 12:37 PM

when I was busted by the Gov, I told them I was here to start a new Religion. Didn't go over well.

So I needed to put that out there.

on a mission from God


Edited by Heirloom Spores, 04 March 2016 - 12:42 PM.


#15 riseabovethought

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Posted 04 March 2016 - 02:33 PM

[Direct Link]


Edited by riseabovethought, 04 March 2016 - 02:34 PM.

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#16 Myc

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Posted 04 March 2016 - 05:39 PM

In response to the original question - Who made God?

 

I think God just was. Remember the day you gained consciousness? Me either.

Same for God. 

It depends upon how you like to frame this. The KJV speaks of God with a capital "G" throughout the text.

When the text upon which that bible was based is examined also - there are some inconvenient inconsistencies.

In the beginning Elohim did all the creating. Elohim - They - plural, gender neutral 

A separate, singular, masculine character created the garden of Eden and Adam.

And the Spirit of God was hovering over the face of the waters.

 

"The waters" and the "face of the deep" are what have intrigued me for awhile. 

 

I really flipped my lid when dpwishy suggested that Adam was still asleep. "caused a deep sleep to fall upon Adam, and he slept"

The Hebrew version might provide some more clues. 

 

I think there are just some things which wouldn't make sense no matter how clearly explained. Alder refers to it as the "telling of the Tao" and I can readily grasp the idea. Once told, it is no longer sacred and therefore, no longer Tao. But if you know it and you be "IT", that is all that is needed. That state can remain true. And consequently, I think that's where "God" came from also. 

It's like the Hebrew "ineffable name of God".  

 


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#17 dpwishy

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Posted 04 March 2016 - 06:11 PM

 

 

I really flipped my lid when dpwishy suggested that Adam was still asleep. "caused a deep sleep to fall upon Adam, and he slept"

The Hebrew version might provide some more clues. 

 

Humans have a conscious (male) and subconscious (female) mind. Two phases of the one universal consciousness expressed in duality.
In this allegory I believe adam to represent the male polarity of consciousness which is awake consciousness and eve to be the female subconscious aspect.
I don't see them as actual beings but allegory to our consciousness and how it fell.

 

 

 

And the Spirit of God was hovering over the face of the waters.

 

"The waters" and the "face of the deep" are what have intrigued me for awhile. 

 

 

arts_review2.jpg

In divine friendship,
your brother,
-wishy


Edited by dpwishy, 04 March 2016 - 07:09 PM.

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#18 niemandgeist

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Posted 04 March 2016 - 06:59 PM

I wonder if I'm the only one who understands that the topic of this thread conversation will forever be moot (moot means debatable to the point that you can debate forever and there will always be at least two sides to the argument) and that this is not necessarily a bad thing.

 

It's good for people to discuss such things in a civil manner and to learn from either side to further their own understanding of themselves and everything else, and to allow them to consider multiple viewpoints that are different from their own standpoint. To be able to adapt to new ideas and arguments, to entertain those points without necessarily adopting them completely, is a good thing for exercising the mind.

 

Right now I'm just reading through more replies and taking it all in. I don't have much else to say at this point about it.

 

I just think that it's a good thing for humanity to always question and wonder. As a matter of fact, I believe that one key feature of humanity is that we DO question and wonder and WANT to know WHY and HOW, even if the answers seem impossible to reach.

 

There are SO many ways of looking at or approaching this type of problem or thought experiment. We can only do this with many, many, MANY varied minds and experiences and opinions. I think it's by our own differences and unique viewpoints that we can forever strive in this direction.

 

Pondering over this stuff is pretty cool!

 

I also often find that it is the case that another person might put things into certain terms or words that I would put into different terms and words, and we mean essentially the same things.

 

Of course, there are always differing views.

 

I think that's just sublime.


Edited by niemandgeist, 04 March 2016 - 07:03 PM.


#19 dpwishy

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Posted 06 March 2016 - 04:20 PM

'I wonder if I'm the only one who understands that the topic of this thread conversation will forever be moot (moot means debatable to the point that you can debate forever and there will always be at least two sides to the argument) and that this is not necessarily a bad thing.

 Moot for sure in any real capacity,

but when we understand belief this doesn't matter. 

 

A lot of people fail to realize this and is the point of who dpwishy is,

its to show that belief is a fulcrum to something higher.

That truth is never truth and can be played with via belief.

 

My favorite metaphor of this is to think of clothing.

When it hot, you wear shorts and t shirts.

When its cold, you wear sweaters and jackets.

Your clothing becomes something you change to suit and fit your needs.
When you dont need a jacket anymore as its hot out, you just put on a tshirt.

Belief has to be seen in the same way.

Use the belief for as long as its useful,

when its not anyone, switch it just as you would your clothes to fit the setting.

Change your belief just as you would clothes.

The one thing that is important here is, to really employ this,

you must not believe in anything truly as truth.

All variables must be held as equal.

Once we say truth is this or that,

we stop this process from happening as belief can no longer be used in the way clothes can be changed.

We build walls with static belief and thus by doing so, this is what we experience.

Once this becomes static, its over.

 

When we say God is a he,

we stop it from coming as a she and so forth.

This is really important to remember.

 

As we look at the beliefs we employ,

does it help the whole?

Can every one do it?

 

I think the belief I employ with christ and that we are all one,

is the best way for me to navigate existence with belief.

As it sets up the best interactions of me and them.

 

This is all that matters.
It doesnt matter if its "true" or not as its all belief based.

What matters is what this belief produces in reality.

 

In divine friendship,

your brother,

-wishy


Edited by dpwishy, 06 March 2016 - 05:11 PM.

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#20 SteampunkScientist

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Posted 06 March 2016 - 07:56 PM

As usual, the whole paradox of which came first, the God or the man.... Is that time is the thing that needs removal. As Alder has pointed out umpteen times, there really is only NOW. If that's so, then the question becomes absurd. Neither came first, or last. There is no such thing as first or last. There is, and there is IT. And IT is you, and IT is me, and IT is God.

Tada!
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