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If God made us, then who made God?


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#21 Alder Logs

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Posted 06 March 2016 - 09:51 PM

And then the question arises: who wants to know?  

 

When we are identifying only as the stuff available to the physical senses, or some mental guess or surmise about it, there can be no suitable answer, as we are bringing in a blinding belief in limitation.  We can call ourselves unlimited if we wish, but the mere concept will not serve.

 

When we are being the unlimited Source, there is no question.


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#22 riseabovethought

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Posted 07 March 2016 - 11:23 AM

'Are you talkin to me?'

[Direct Link]


Edited by riseabovethought, 07 March 2016 - 04:39 PM.


#23 Alder Logs

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Posted 07 March 2016 - 12:00 PM

That is a great portrayal of that personally identified 'who' within us.   The imagined and believed-in separateness of the ego, a most destructive force playing in the world.   When we can choose to see it honestly in ourselves, we begin to be real.   We become more understanding of how it plays in all of us.  


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#24 Myc

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Posted 07 March 2016 - 06:06 PM

So Alder, I've always taken queues from those who've gone before. Experience trumps classroom study.

 

At what age would you estimate that you arrived at these realizations? 

It's all new for me. The stuff you bring to the table has helped me to begin unraveling the gordian knot which is the complex "self". 


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#25 Alder Logs

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Posted 08 March 2016 - 01:34 AM

So Alder, I've always taken queues from those who've gone before. Experience trumps classroom study.

 

At what age would you estimate that you arrived at these realizations? 

It's all new for me. The stuff you bring to the table has helped me to begin unraveling the gordian knot which is the complex "self". 

 

There is no rule like this.   Just because I was kind of hit with this seeing at age 67, the seeing was that it was always there, the only thing that changed was my willingness to give up seeing as I was habituated to see.   And yes, that old seeing was as a complex self.   The complexity was the thinking that I was my story of histories and futures, my learnings, my memories of experiences, projections about everything arising in thought.   Suddenly, it was as if I was looking over my own shoulder at all of that, seeing how I had made it up from a moving picture.  It was that famously unreliable eye witness testimony.   Once seen this way, in all honesty I could see I didn't really know anything for certain... not in all those old details at any rate.  

 

Yes, as they say, it was a dreaming; pretending to be a knowing.    What can bring such a change?   I would say, a willingness, an urge of the heart to be free from one's own delusion, and the humility to entertain the new idea that all the old ideas of self have run their courses.   When this break comes, toss even the new idea away, as it has served its purpose.   Mooji says of this, "when you get a thorn in your foot, you can take another thorn to remove the first thorn.  Then you throw both thorns away."   The mind is not the identity.   The mind, as it is, is just another blessing of this life.  The thoughts and ideas all come and go, as they should and must.   The heart thinks in silence.   The silence was there before any thought of mind arose.   It is there now. 

 

It is the eternal simplicity out of which all complexity owes its temporary appearance.   This is seen in an instant.  And seen, it cannot then be unseen, except by a denial of the experience.  

 

When I saw through my own story a mere 17 months ago, I would have to term it a blinding revelation, coming upon me in a perceived crisis of identity.   I could say I had sought it for many years through the path I had been on.   But, not knowing what such an awakening would entail on an experiential level, I was totally unequipped to integrate my sense of self into it.   Here, there was a great grace added to the grace of this new sight, in that I was just discovering a master of such awakening, someone who could show me the ropes, as it were.   I immediately had begun to, out of habit, integrate my experiences in the form of a new story of identity.  I was effectively handing this off to my mind in the form of a new historical 'me,' being created in my mind.    I am so thankful to have found a loving and wise master just then, at such a juncture. 

 

I had no idea that the experience that was so freeing was that of emptiness and non-identity.  I had almost immediately embarked on the creation of 'spiritual me.'   The new improved identity.  I thank my master who showed me the truth of my experience was in what had been laid down, and nothing that had been, or could be, picked up, on a personal level.  

 

There is only the Self, the One Self.   We can express it in the statement, "I am," or, "I exist."  Is there any need to say more?  The One Self lives its existence as the everything arising from what?     Could there be words to speak here?  

 

I am He as you are He as you are me and we are all together... coo coo cachoo. 


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#26 Myc

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Posted 08 March 2016 - 09:14 AM

Thank you for sharing. I'm not looking for any hard and fast rules - a timeline. Just taking notes personally.

 

Here is an embarrassing confession:

 

A secret, private, part of my guts twisted into a knot while watching the "you talking to me" video.

It is tragic how much of my life (real and fantasy) I spent enacting and imagining such awful scenarios. I compare it to that awful addiction to hard-core destructive music. I don't really understand - but I had developed some sort of sick "comfort" from the feelings evoked by the scenes I imagined. 

I became disgusted at how I was using the power of my mind and imagination - when it's so easy to dream of wholesome things.

I began to see where (and how) my power is being used - against my conscious wishes - to shape the very world which I fear. The world at large is being used in much the same way. 

 

I like to help people. I use the model of my own existence as a guideline to help others see this "imagined self".

This construct has done more to advance my understanding of self than any number of relapses into drug behavior, visits with psychologists and other like professionals, church guidance, ......you name it. Noting worked in the past because nothing resonated within me. 

In just a few passages - a few parcels of words here and there - I have really begun to unravel that knot. I would like to be able to help others put away the sword and begin patiently the task of unraveling.


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#27 Alder Logs

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Posted 08 March 2016 - 10:36 AM

A secret, private, part of my guts twisted into a knot while watching the "you talking to me" video.

It is tragic how much of my life (real and fantasy) I spent enacting and imagining such awful scenarios. I compare it to that awful addiction to hard-core destructive music. I don't really understand - but I had developed some sort of sick "comfort" from the feelings evoked by the scenes I imagined. 

I became disgusted at how I was using the power of my mind and imagination - when it's so easy to dream of wholesome things.

I began to see where (and how) my power is being used - against my conscious wishes - to shape the very world which I fear. The world at large is being used in much the same way.

 

I could say pretty much the same, remembering my younger days.   I remember that I took injustices very personally and would visualize striking down and killing those who were my projections of evil doers.  Sadly, these were generalizations, in my mind, anyone part of a perceived to be unjust institution, such as cops and judges, seen as bullies and tyrants.   We can see such imaginings are carried to actions far too often.  We can see some people even prosper by publicly presenting their own similar projections, setting up popular illusions of separation and other.   Seeing it in ourselves is the beginnings of our own honest inquiry.   This is our own road to freedom.  To our true self.  

 


 

I like to help people. I use the model of my own existence as a guideline to help others see this "imagined self".

This construct has done more to advance my understanding of self than any number of relapses into drug behavior, visits with psychologists and other like professionals, church guidance, ......you name it. Noting worked in the past because nothing resonated within me. 

In just a few passages - a few parcels of words here and there - I have really begun to unravel that knot. I would like to be able to help others put away the sword and begin patiently the task of unraveling.

 

Again like you, in my higher desires for identity, helping others was what I naturally gravitated toward.    Edgar Cayce became a model for me, as in his biography, his powers came to him through a vision he had as a troubled boy in which he was asked, "What do you want?"   "I only want to help people," was his answer. 

 

And so, the path I mentioned having been on for years could have been described as, "karma yoga," or the path of service.  And yet, the key to karma yoga is, "selfless" service.   If one works day and night but incorporates such actions into the ego identity, service is not selfless.   It might even be a better or at least more benign path, but it becomes yet another path to separation. We might perceive those whose judged selfishness is more blatant than our own and problematic to our personal projections of perfection.   Our own good intentions will become the pavement of another road to Hell.  Hell being our unfulfilled potential to realize the true unity.  

 

Unity is the eternal truth.   Perceptions and projections of separateness and other are the dream, the illusion our hearts yearn to be finished with at last.  If a vision of the unity only leads us to a path of wild-eyed zealotry, we have left any realization behind.  We've gone for another of ego's projections, still believing in ourselves as doer.  In the oneness, all is done, and no knot ever existed.   No knowing, no opinion: this is the freedom to just be.   Actions may arise, but no doer is present.


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#28 riseabovethought

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Posted 14 April 2016 - 09:58 AM

^After re- reading that description above, I wonder if identity confusion begins with misunderstanding our unity with God, or is at least a primary factor.  Maybe somehow I can help her curb this confusion upfront, if she understands her oneness with God somehow early on.  It is encouraging to consider.  



#29 August West

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Posted 14 April 2016 - 10:48 PM

This is another question i stumbled around with, coming from my 7 year old, this morning on her way to school.  Then she asked me another one.

 

Is Jesus God?  Why do some people think Jesus is God?

 

Stumbled around with that one too.  It reminded me of all those giant billboards all over South Carolina that say Jesus Is Lord.  It reminded me how many people do associate Jesus with God, as if they are the same 'entity,' which, they sortof are...the same way we are all god.  I told her Jesus was teaching us that we are all God's children.  Her eyes glassed over.  We sent her to a church school and now its becoming more confusing for her than helpful.  Maybe I can walk her through it. 

 

It also made me think about the comparison of how so many others think Mohammad was God.  Prophets and Jews and war in the middle east.  Forgiveness and love is nowhere to be seen.  Churches here are no better, helping themselves first and foremost.  Ugh.  Where did we go wrong?

You know she's on to something when she starts asking you if god is the same as geometry.


Edited by August West, 14 April 2016 - 11:19 PM.

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#30 dead_diver

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Posted 14 April 2016 - 11:14 PM

God always has been and god never was.
God is everything and god uses life to experience itself. Every living thing is a sensory organ of god. At least that's as best as I can explain it.
Stephen Hawkins would probably call me an idiot. Mechanical voice..."you are an idiot". Lol
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#31 Mind

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Posted 16 April 2016 - 07:21 PM

In my opinion all that was before the latter, was prior material that was self kinetic in its organization. Until it sent out a material helper to recover desired materials. Within this formation an asymmetrical conciouseness was formed. Same with the messenger, material organization reached its perfection. Thus the emergence of two thing all knowing which involves not knowing something once(bet that's tricky), possibly was just the price of this when we never observed our electron. Something is hiding there, asymatrically observing all matter. Good example is spiral arms of a galaxy shown to seed other galaxy's with meteorite. Let alone the long list of other phenomena involving matter. I saw this in a vision, explainanation was that prior material was the entire collection throughout enternity.




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