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COB leds lighting log


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#1 Hash_Man

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Posted 04 May 2016 - 07:56 PM

Hi i you guys,
a couple years ago kcmoxtractor had a thread on COB LED's I think he went more extensive into COB's since.
https://mycotopia.ne...-cob-style-led/

So I haven't been to this side of the forum for yrs. With some help from microbe77 I've been learning some things about COB led's, COB's simply stands for Chip On Board here's a typical looking COB LED.

sku_250512_1.jpg

Little basics that you may already know but bare with me.

Lumens are to light what
Pounds are to bananas
Gallons are to milk

Lumens let you buy the amount of light you want. So when buying your lights be it HID bulbs, LED's, COB LED think lumens, not watts. I soppose you can look at it as lumens per watt.

The brightness, or lumen levels, of the lights in your grow may vary widely more by the type of lighting your using rather than contigent on your wattage.

we are concerned with wattage only because of cost and electricity consumption. We use watts as a measuring stick of electicity consumption but other than that we're dealing essentially miliamps (mA) not watts, you'll see. Running these COB at lower mA's can greatly increase efficiency, enough you can add extra COB LED's in your grow to greater increase yeilds, hope I can explain this better as we go along but I'm new to this and just barely have a grasp on it.

I've found while trying to learn about COB's and led's is you'll hear a lot about 'efficiency' which is basically the ratio of protons (light) produced by the amount of miliamps your light is drawing, obviously the more protons per amp or miliamps the better. Does that all make sense so far?

So I know many of you are gearing up your resources about PAR watts, well you've heard of Kelvin's (the lighting industrys measurement of light color) so yes it's been known that 3500k is remarkably close to PAR (what the plant sees) and 4000k also but guys are tending more to the 3500"s because it's better for flowering, its like HPS but more blue. Here are a couple graphs the first one is a typical PAR example and the second is an example of CREE's CXB3070 COB 3500K
images.jpg Spectrum-Pacific-Light-Concepts-1.jpg

Edited by Hash_Man, 04 May 2016 - 09:33 PM.

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#2 dead head jed

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Posted 04 May 2016 - 08:09 PM

Pulls up a chair


:)
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#3 wharfrat

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Posted 04 May 2016 - 08:46 PM

big comfy chair


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#4 Hash_Man

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Posted 04 May 2016 - 10:33 PM

I couldn't understand how this whole COB thing works it was confusing and still is to a point, the difficult part for me was matching the driver to the COB LED's so a little more than a month ago I said to myself to just order some COB's and learn out of necessity. I ordered thesehttp://m.gearbest.co.../pp_180258.html

I received them 4 weeks ago.

20160330_185411.jpg

Now matching and finding a driver

Edited by Hash_Man, 05 May 2016 - 04:45 AM.

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#5 wharfrat

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Posted 05 May 2016 - 12:02 AM

nice! I wish Kc was here he is a wiz at the cobs, maybe i can persuade him to come back just to contribute.. i will try, wish me luck :biggrin:


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#6 Hash_Man

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Posted 05 May 2016 - 06:38 AM

Yea that be cool wharfrat.

I forgot to give the spec's or discription of the COB's I purchased, their cheapys but its for learning, oh I'll be using them too. I have some CREE COB's ordered I will show that as things unfold I may be months boring you guys with all this but what the hell.
Here's the link and discription (note: where it says they are a 100 watts that's deceptive I think they mean 100W equivalent)

http://m.gearbest.co.../pp_180257.html
● Material: Aluminum
● Power: 100W
● Rate voltage: DC 30-36V
● Working current: 300mA
● Emitter type: COB LED
● Total emitters: 100PCS
● Color bin: Warm white / pure white
● Beam angle: 180 Deg.C
● Color temperature: 3000-3500K
● Theoretical lumens: 10000 lumens
● Actual lumens: 9000 lumens
● Dimension: 52mm x 40mm

So this thread is titled as a log but this first part is actually the back story, today I should receive the driver by mail, then continue as a log.

I think one of the advantages of these COB's is since it's a DIY your able to configure the lights to your grow space and your not limited to a manufacturers smaller footprint with the higher concertration of light in the center of your grow and little on the fringe areas. When I get to actually building and setting up these things I'll explain better.

I couldn't find a driver that had a 36V voltage with 300mA working current (when talking about leds and drivers wherever you see the term current it's referencing amperage).
They concider 36V high output (I may have said that already sorry if I did) then Microbe77 turned me on to this Vid that explained how to split the amperage between all the COB's wiring them parallel, thanks bro.

[Direct Link]



I should be able to run 5 of my sencart 300 miliamp COB's with this one driver a Meanwell CEN-60-36, it has 1.7 amp current so I did the math, and I think I may even be able to run just 4 COB's I'm looking foward to figuring all this out. Here's the driver I purchased, what's cool I'll also be able to use it on the CREE COB"s when they come in, the CREE CXB3070's and the 3590's working current is 2.8 amps, I think they say a sweet spot for efficiency is usually somewhere at 60% anyway I've seen guys online recommending 1.7 amp for those COB's to be more efficient. Here's what I bought

https://power.sager....36-2524794.html

Mean_Well-CEN-60-36-image.jpg

Let me inject here when matching the drive to the LED's you can't be under powering them, you can go higher (to a degree) but it's best not to skimp on the current it won't work.

Edited by Hash_Man, 05 May 2016 - 10:14 AM.

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#7 dead head jed

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Posted 05 May 2016 - 07:18 AM

I'm confused
The link says they are 100w chips
But the run 30-36V at 300mA
Watts=volts*amp= 10.8w at 36v...
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#8 Hash_Man

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Posted 05 May 2016 - 07:20 AM

I'm confused
The link says they are 100w chips
But the run 30-36V at 300mA
Watts=volts*amp= 10.8w at 36v...

Right? Good eye Jed! I just corrected that as you were reading lol.

Their like 10 watts ea. These fucking company's are like hype city and that messed me up at first when matching shit.
They can't even tell it's real Kelvin's just a color range . . That's one reason to stick with name brand like CREE and Vero

I just noticed the video I posted earlier was the wrong one below is better in my opinion sense I can't edit it , you'll you see some of the things I said is inconsistent to what he says so, he's more an expert, here is the correct Vid I hope

[Direct Link]


Edited by Hash_Man, 05 May 2016 - 01:51 PM.

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#9 Microbe

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Posted 05 May 2016 - 10:03 PM

10 watt equivalent yea but still a great value. Lets speculate and say that the bulk of the light being emitted is within 600-700 nm range and the same can be said about HPS bulbs. I had the lumens is for human speech a few times now but even with modern hid bulbs, they are still rated by lumens.

A $20.00 400 watt HPS bulb averages 50,000 lumens. Thats 125 lumems per watt while your cob has an output of 900 lumens per watt! However when comparing actual wattage and not equivalents, you can run 40 of those cobs and thats an output of 360,000 lumens! Keep in mind the HPS i was referring to has a average life span of 24,000 hours and while lumen output drops of significantly.

Cobs are the future for sure and i have seen some awesome ass grows (professional legal operations) that use all COBS. And its crazy because they dont talk about par values but lumens and watts.

Im no expert and went on a cob bender when i was wanting to start another hobby but my current electrical situation put that on hold.

On the contrary i can allocate 10 amps for lights and i have A10 LED bulbs. What that means is i have a cob with a globe. Remove the globe and i now have single directional light emitting chip on board with a integrated heat sink. They are 11 watt equivalent, 1100 lumens, 3000 Kelvin temp, and pull 105 mA. I paid 1.00 each. I had 100 watt equivalent but sold them off because i didnt do my research adlnd had a good fellow tell me they wouldnt work. Maybe not for 5 ft tall trees but for a sog or small plants with a little lst to get several top colas per plant, i bet they will work great!

So i have 10 amps to allocate for lights. Thats 95 of these suckers pushing 105,000 lumens of probably very usable light by the plant. I obviously wouldnt do this and run 2 cabs on opposite light cycles but im just saying.

I dont know if i have a green thumb yet, i have a feeling i will develop one quickly but my whole point is that COBS are the future for not only home growers but commercial growers also.

Sorry for barging in Hash but this post got me all excited about light again. Cree CXA 3590 is the way i would go if i ever wanted to get serious about this. Perhaps i will give these A19's a go.

I have been waiting to see this in action for 6 months. Start growing something ;)
7c94889fd82c230273551483f612181a.jpg
da2c3ca7fb5177f2f0167927b4bf3d71.jpg
15eedb6bf1e4f9799d0ef8cedaa59e22.jpg

Edited by Microbe77, 05 May 2016 - 10:06 PM.

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#10 Hash_Man

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Posted 06 May 2016 - 05:38 AM

" . . . Sorry for barging in Hash but this post got me all excited about light again. Cree CXA 3590 is the way i would go


Your not barging in good prosective thanks!

Yea the CXB3590's really are the best way to go IMO too, here is what they say about them

http://www.pacificli...-3590-3500k-cd/
Cree CXB line is the highest performing led line on the market. The cxb 3590 is the most efficient COB in the world and offers unsurpassed performance at every level. With the COB revolution taking place in the led industry, more and more people are turning to DIY to create their own high efficiency LED lamps. But getting the correct and quality components can be an issue. The Cree CXA, and now CXB lines, have leading the way since the beginning and continue to offer the best performance in the industry. Not every chip is created equal, even within the same product line such as the CXB. Once manufactured, they are binned or ranked into their outputs. So obtaining the top bin is a very important part of building high efficiency lamps. We get our chips directly from cree and assure nothing but the current top bin for maximum photon output and efficiency however you choose drive them"

Well I received my Meanwell driver! Tomorrow I'll start messing with it and the COB's, but damn I'm not sure exactly what the top adjustment screws are in the right corner are. I think the one marked 'VO' adjusts the output voltage but the other one marked IO hmm? got to get a VOM meter, need one anyway.
20160505_185905~2.jpg 20160505_185914~2.jpg

Edited by Hash_Man, 06 May 2016 - 06:12 AM.


#11 Microbe

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Posted 06 May 2016 - 09:03 AM

I going to talk about Cree a little more Hash and i hope you dont mind.

The Cobs that Hash and I are talking about are known as X lamp series. While CXA #### are very popular the CXB#### are the 2nd generation of CXA Xlamps.

XLamp CXB3590
Second Generarion of CXA LED XLamp Arrays.

The XLamp CXB3590 LED Array is the brightest member of the second generation of the CXA family that delivers up to 33% higher efficacy than the first generation in the same LES. The higher performance CXA2 LED Arrays allow lighting manufacturers to achieve the same or better performance with a smaller LES, enabling a radical reduction in system size and cost. CXA2 LED Arrays share the same physical design as the previous generation, allowing lighting manufacturers to leverage the existing optical, mechanical and electrical design elements to accelerate time to market without additional cost.


Now economically speaking, you can probably buy led grow light and even some made with cobs and typically these cob lights use epistar which is much lower quality. You can expect to spend thousands of dollars to build a cree cob light for large growing areas but they will pay for themselves after a single harvest.

I mentioned that you cant grow trees with cobs, i was talking about my A19's. You can get excellent canopy penetration with the crees.

Now 6 months ago the CXB3590's were hard to find and even more so a effective driver that meet our needs.

Im uploading a pdf that is a must read and has intense technical specs. It is down below.

Also if anyone isnt satisfied with the wavelength you can supplment with a red to far red wavelength very cheaply.

[Direct Link]



This guy who does these videos is very detailed and a very good teacher of COB technology. Find one of his videos and subscribe.

Hash, you have me planning again. Im already designing my cab's and shopping drivers and cobs again. You are a great motivator my friend!!!! If i get out of control on tour thread let me know. I wont mention crees again because your not using cree. The ones from gear best are going to work great and i believe they will out perform hps, and some of the led light hoods such as the galaxy hydro, joyhydro, apollo and the likes.

I bet a nicely designed cree array supplemented with crees red and far red diodes will out perform Kind LED Panels watt for watt and imo Kind is the best fabricated or manufactured led panel on the market.

Another interesting topic and is inline with my new kick im on, change the way we think, but watch the cob video from the same dude in the videos you and i posted but he ran a 5,000 kelvin cob over a few colas while the rest of the canopy was under the 2700 kelvin. The colas that also received the light emitted from the 5,000 kelvin produced more trichomes (spell check) and had more purple in it. He said this was interesting but also a very good thing. He is currently designing another array using manynof these 5,000 kelvin cobs. Is 5,000 kelvin more of a full spectrum perhaps? I bet it is!

Thanksbfor letting me participate Hashy!

Anyone interested in CREE Cobs, read the pdf below.

Attached Files


Edited by Microbe77, 06 May 2016 - 09:05 AM.

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#12 Hash_Man

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Posted 06 May 2016 - 10:10 AM

Thanks bro

I have some CRE CXB3070 ordered actually I can order them on the 10 of May, (they don't offer pre-order) and they'll be going in the second cab.

Thanks again
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#13 Hash_Man

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Posted 07 May 2016 - 07:43 AM

@mirobe77 you shouldn't have got talked out of trying those globe lights, I would have liked to see how that went.

I went and got a few of those globe lights but 6500k for may small veg area and mothers.

Edit: also I've seen I think it was the same guy but regardless who, he ran some 6500k on one side of a grow and that side the flower pistils darkened and matured faster than the side without.

In the past I've added 6500k in ripeing on some of my t-5 grows and always thought it improved quality.

Edited by Hash_Man, 07 May 2016 - 08:52 AM.

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#14 Hash_Man

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Posted 15 May 2016 - 03:00 PM

Have a bit of a standstill for the heatsinks.
So while I'm sorting out that issue (money) I'll show a bit of the veg area.

Note: if I didn't mention the anticapated grow is a cabnet grow DrBudGreenjeans perpetual SOG style grow.
https://www.icmag.co...ead.php?t=69713
I've done one these grows in the past with great results but but soon had to move that was years ago.


Here's pics from DrBudGreenjeans thread above.
3008882_Gram_bud_grown_in_a_16_oz_bottle.jpg
3008814_different_kinds.jpg

I'm using this is the cab I'm going to use 40. Bucks at a thrift store, looks good in the home too.
20160515_150146.jpg

Note: sorry most these pictures are sideways their right side up in my phone, next time I'll put them in my laptop edit (if need) then renaname and back in the phone

I could only find 5000k LED flood lights, they'll be find their bright as shit and only 13 watts.
20160515_121904.jpg 20160515_121840.jpg

I cut the lens off, I figure it filters too much light.
20160515_121825.jpg 20160514_145036.jpg 20160515_122220.jpg 20160515_122251.jpg

A few parts from Walmart about 9.00 bucks.20160515_130132.jpg


Here's what they look like so far remember its just for veg.
20160515_160750.jpg 20160515_160823.jpg

Plants are coming back from a case of a nut burn damn Advanced Nutrients LOL but the strains are CottonCandy and 91Krypt. They are bent down right now these are going to be mothers for the SOG and that's how I get some bottom growth instead of topping.

20160515_160741.jpg 20160515_160720.jpg

Edited by Hash_Man, 15 May 2016 - 04:27 PM.

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#15 Heirloom

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Posted 17 May 2016 - 12:31 PM

Hash-man or anyone in the know, I want to help a person who has little to spend .

Can a small scrog be set up using store bought leds, taking the plastic off of course..

I was looking at Cree Leds today at a store and wondered how many would be needed to set up a small
scrog, using 2-4 square feet. I need to know how far from the canopy.

 If you can help me figure this out I can build a small unit for a person in need, I would be grateful.

 I can get them a clone or 2 to start with. I offered them a 400MH but they thought it was to big and cost to much to run.

         namaste
 



#16 Microbe

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Posted 17 May 2016 - 04:08 PM

Hash-man or anyone in the know, I want to help a person who has little to spend .

Can a small scrog be set up using store bought leds, taking the plastic off of course..

I was looking at Cree Leds today at a store and wondered how many would be needed to set up a small
scrog, using 2-4 square feet. I need to know how far from the canopy.

If you can help me figure this out I can build a small unit for a person in need, I would be grateful.

I can get them a clone or 2 to start with. I offered them a 400MH but they thought it was to big and cost to much to run.

namaste

Its speculation but i do believe you can get results with the store bought leds. Removing the globe or the lense will increase the lumens to a varying degree. The key is getting the right kelvin rating or mixture of kelvin ratings but we must change the way we think.

Its common info red is for flowering while blue is for veg. What if i told you that someone used kelvin ratings of the blue spectrum during flowering and received results such as that of a UAB light?

I was ready to lend about 60 led A19 bulbs or cobs with a globe to help a buddy of mine out but was convinced not to. Man alive i wish i would have gave them to him to use. I doubt store bought LED bulbs will penetrate a canopy but it is absolutely 100% plausible based on my research for a scrog style grow or even a small cab grow. Quantity and size would be limited to the quantity of bulbs you have.

Check out this cfl grow, heck yeah store bought LEDs will work. I have led A19 bulbs with a output of 1400 lumens each. 1 per plant perhaps hanging about 8" to 1' about a few top colas.

Check this out, im certain LED Cobs will out perform these cfl bulbs! And this kat in this video could have had better results with a little LST and defoliating!

[Direct Link]


Edited by Microbe77, 17 May 2016 - 04:23 PM.

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#17 Hash_Man

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Posted 17 May 2016 - 05:22 PM

"...Can a small scrog be set up using store bought led's . . scrog, using 2-4 square feet. .l

I think he can that's about the size I have, actually mines a little smaller but have two. The flood style are pretty fucking bright.

I can only give you my opinion, the spectrum 3500k would be ideal but you'll have hell of a time finding them . . It's all 2700, 3000, 5000k . . guys have been mixing those spectrums something like 1-5000k to every 3-3000k's anyway that's what's I'm doing with the cobs and am going to try with these floodlamps.

if your friend can find the globe style 20160517_184926.jpg LED's 100-120 watt equivalents
in those spectrums, I think might be even better there more COB like I have one and think it's a bit brighter . . We'll my Colzone just arrived PM me if you want but I'm just learning this.

Edited by Hash_Man, 17 May 2016 - 08:00 PM.

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#18 Microbe

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Posted 17 May 2016 - 07:04 PM

I had 100 watt equivalent each at 1600 lumens and at least 60 of them and i paid 2 bucks a piece or something silly like that and a heck of a freaking deal.

They were 2700 kelvin and at the time prior to doing more research, i thought they were perfect. After being talked out of it i sold them all and made 25.00 profit and then after more research i decided that it would work and i got the same deal but these were only 75 watt equivalent and @ 1400 lumens and only about 40 of them.

Hash is right your going to have a heck of a time finding 3500 kelvin and even 6500 kelvin led bulbs at a retailer. Find clearance bulbs and offer low dollar and buu them all and you will get a heck of a deal at Lowes. Be careful paying full price because by then you could have diy'd a kick ass cob light (cree) for a little mo money. A
2000 lumens cob flood light can set you back 50 bucks!!!! You can get a cree cxa3590 cob for that but then you will need to invest in a driver and or heat sinks along with other materials but my point is find the best deal if your going to use general purpose cobs or your better off spending a little more to get something that will perform 10 x's better.

Another option is to get on ebay and find someone selling a used led grow light in ebay and then open it up and see what the maximum watts is and at what voltage then order x amount of cobs and hack it. This will eliminate the need for purchasing heat sinks and drivers.

This post was more rambling then anything but for some reason light and cultivation gets me excited and i just want to talk about it, and its that simple. Im no expert and have never grown anything green in my life. Wait,i that is a lie i threw down some grass this spring but you get me.

There are some good videos and threads that can damn near teach you everything you need to know about cob led's if you like i could share the links and so can hashman. Just be specific such as wiring, or pairing with a driver, kelvin ratings, installation, heat sinks, and etc.

I know this is a far cry from going into Lowes and purchasing a few bulbs off the shelve but you can DIY a kick ass grow light that will out perform most other led grow light on the market as far as dollar per watt invested and i will help you.

Good luck and for sure keep us posted!!!!

Edited by Microbe77, 17 May 2016 - 07:05 PM.

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#19 Heirloom

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Posted 18 May 2016 - 09:17 AM

I'll have to read up on this subject. Heres a small one I used over 2 large aloe vera  plants , they did great under this through the winter. I also got an led flood light. 


I bet a small plant could be grown  using some of these.

 nice topic, peace 

Attached Thumbnails

  • COB LED 001.JPG


#20 Heirloom

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Posted 18 May 2016 - 02:19 PM

A Phillips flood LED 25 watts @ 295 ma. -- edit that's what it says but 295 ma x 120 V =  35.4  W.
The original package listed it as 50 watts. Threw it away a long time aha , never hardly used it.

got a small clone that needs to be grown in a mini grow..

It was hard to get the plastic off , I thought I broke it but when screwed in it worked.
very heavy as it has a great heat sink.

I might try it my self to se how it does.

   Thanks for all the info posted above, I feel inspired.

    Namaste

edit - forgot to post pic

 

Attached Thumbnails

  • COB 2 and clone 001.JPG

Edited by Heirloom Spores, 18 May 2016 - 02:55 PM.

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