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marriage and children


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#21 Heirloom

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Posted 16 July 2016 - 12:41 PM

I might suggest to bring a law suite against the church who gave you and your wife counseling.
This counseling was detrimental to you marriage and unnatural in his advise. I bet a jury would agree.

This might get your wife's ( and children ) freedom from this wannabe cult leader.
One thing I will bet on is he worships power over people and money.


I try to follow the teachings of Jesus but there are many who use the "bible" to gain power over people.

 shalom



 



#22 August West

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Posted 16 July 2016 - 01:33 PM

I might suggest to bring a law suite against the church who gave you and your wife counseling.
This counseling was detrimental to you marriage and unnatural in his advise. I bet a jury would agree.

This might get your wife's ( and children ) freedom from this wannabe cult leader.
One thing I will bet on is he worships power over people and money.


I try to follow the teachings of Jesus but there are many who use the "bible" to gain power over people.

 shalom



 

Caveat emptor.

 

Or, perhaps more appropriately, in the words of Hunter Thompson, "Buy the ticket, take the ride."



#23 SteampunkScientist

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Posted 16 July 2016 - 03:24 PM

Dire, one more thing... proverbs 31. The wife in that chapter started her own business selling cloth, then buys and sells land. That means she works to help her husband provide for the family.

Just wanted to point that out.
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#24 rainbowsmurf

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Posted 16 July 2016 - 03:37 PM

 Breaking up is never easy what ever the situation. Worse still when children are in the mix. sending healing and good vibes x


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#25 Heirloom

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Posted 16 July 2016 - 04:06 PM

Genesis 2:18 - it is not good that the man should be alone, I will make a helper mate for him.
                    


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#26 Direwolf13

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Posted 16 July 2016 - 05:17 PM

Dire, one more thing... proverbs 31. The wife in that chapter started her own business selling cloth, then buys and sells land. That means she works to help her husband provide for the family.

Just wanted to point that out.

Thanks Steam I re-visited proverbs 31 a while back, and found that the description of this women to be incredible. Recently I read that it was written to give praise to women and the diverse roles they play in life but not necessarily a list of qualities a Christian or Jewish women would have. The reason I wanted to add that in there is because lately I've been reading up on equality and there exists Christians who believe in biblical equality and they suggest that holding women or men to gender roles in the bible is harmful and therefore while this gives an example of a women performing lots of roles for the family one women may not work outside a home, one women may work outside the home but individually that should be decided with the family and not based on interpretations of the bible.
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#27 Direwolf13

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Posted 16 July 2016 - 05:26 PM

Genesis 2:18 - it is not good that the man should be alone, I will make a helper mate for him.

So I really dug into this because this was used by the conservative pastor saying that the man is supposed to be "head of household" and women is supposed to be a helper, like helping by taking care of children and house hold chores.

So, I researched the shit out of that. The word helper is used in the old testimate something like 20 times. The Hebrew word that was used here translates to "helper" or "helpmate" in English but doesn't mean what we think. The Hebrew word means savior and is almost always used incontext to god saving his people, or also aiding in military support. It's prolly one of the most misused verses in American Christianity. This verse is telling that Adam was alone and needed to be saved from desolation. Not to be assisted in domestic responsibilities like the conservative pastor instructs.

And also another misused word is "head" Christian men think the bible instructs men to be "head of household" and from the higher order God is head of Christ, Christ is head of man, man is head of women. However the Hebrew word that translates to head in English actually means "to come from" and nothing more. So indeed Christ comes from god, and a mans family or even eve (women), comes from man. But there is no suggestion for order, and intact God, Christ, and the Holy Ghost are all equal because they are the same. There is no higher ranking here at all that is a patriarchal view woven into religion to make women subordinate. Interesting stuff to me for sure.
-edit-
Forgot to say thanks heirloom for the support.

And thanks to all who are in this thread keeping it active. It's a daily struggle for me here and even the jokes make me laugh sometimes!

Edited by Direwolf13, 16 July 2016 - 05:51 PM.

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#28 Direwolf13

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Posted 16 July 2016 - 05:42 PM

Just an update here, because I never gave one...
My wife would not give in, she refused to work part time, and although claimed to love me was upset because I gave her an ultimatum. She said it was manipulative and controlling. I'm effort to keep the family together I told her I would get another job and former to just come back. So I'm in the process of getting another job (I have got 1 on call job that I just have to go in and train for next week, and another interview for a weekend job in a week). It's not what I want at all, but I guess it's the only way to make things work. She will keep working the minimum required hours to hold her nurse license.

There is conditions though. I have mandated bathroom cleaning, floor mopping, breakfast prep/cook/clean up, and vacuuming to be done by me, and I also have been doing 75% laundry wash/fold/put away, and 75% of dishes, taking the trash and recycles out, and what ever diapers I can get my hands on (and also brushing kids teeth, and what ever care taking needs to be done when I'm around). I will not trade time with my children for household chores it's not a fair trade. This time I am missing out on in their lives I will never get back. So I'm stepping up the bar here. Also I'm looking into getting some stuff going on for myself so I am make new friends. All in all things have been relatively fight free but this is because I no longer request sex, no longer point out her poor behavior, and try to ignor her attitude and mood swings. I do however point out when she insults me, or talks negatively but even then I keep to a minimum. The at I'm aporoaching this is she claims to know Christ, and wants to learn more about the bible so I just need to step back. At some point she is going to have to reflect on her own behavior I imagine, if he's really developing a relationship with God.

She refused to read Or believe in biblical equality and thinks feminism is the work of the devil. She won't even really read stuff about the bible that is written by women... So weird, not sure what the angle is here... I've held myself back from trying to help her, because if she does come over to my side it has to be free will not cohersion.

I've found a bunch of Facebook groups for Christian equality and even Christian for marijuana. Turns out America has a fucked yo view on marijuana and life in general and has contorted the bible to turn most people away. This isn't how it's supposed to be though and I pray things will change. God made all things and he made them good, maybe not all things are good for all people but one must decide with his own conscious this because in the end man stands before God alone, and it is God who makes him stand. Most churches today in America don't seem to understand this.

#29 Sidestreet

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Posted 17 July 2016 - 09:05 AM

Take heart, this will not last forever.  It sounds like you are unhappy but are taking steps to find like-minded people and that's good.  This struggle will not last forever.  Just keep plowing through one day at a time.

 

I hope things get better for you quickly.  <3  Try to communicate with her as much as possible and see things from her perspective (not to say you have to take her perspective, just try to imagine it).

 

So she and the kids are back?


Edited by Sidestreet, 17 July 2016 - 09:14 AM.

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#30 Direwolf13

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Posted 17 July 2016 - 10:54 AM

Yes they have been back for 2 weeks now. That's exactly what I'm trying to do, just step back and understand her point of view, the problem that I truffle with is that I know her point of view because I was exposed to it during a horrible stay at teen challenge when struggling with heroin as a youth. It's not what I want my children to be learning, and it's not how I want to share my life. Ideally I would be married to a women who likes to enjoy sex, and let loose and party once and a while. That was who I married, but that person is gone now and trying to make me into something I'm not. What hurts is that she truely believes that marijuana is a sin against God, she truely believes that God made women to do house work and raise children which puts me at a disadvantage because I love kids and I love marijuana and believe both are gifts from God for all to enjoy. There is no where in the bible anything suggesting marijuana is against God will for human kind. Anything u may find is a subjective interpretation, and what you do find is specific instructions to be ware for false teachings, wolves in sheep clothing, what you see is it is not what a person puts into their bodies that makes them evil it's what comes out of them. Paul specifically instructs in the bible that God accepts you as you are, and loves you just the way you are. Sure you are transformed when you accept Jesus into your life but you don't necessarily have to loose all your old ways, you just do them for the glory of God. I feel strong conviction of my son when I smoke, I perform constant introspection to find motives for my behaviors and a new way to see things. I don't hide from God when I'm under the influence. In fact I become closer to God because I can listen more clearly. If I were to completely abstain from marijuana it would do me great harm and my faith. And for what? To please some stupid pastor and some stupid church that wants to make a box for God so they can do religion around it? I don't think so, things have gone so wrong these days it's just crazy when you look back into history and see what Christianity has become. I really like this women's post, this is a recent one regarding rethinking/misoconceptions of hell. It's a cool read check it out if anybody is interested
http://newlife.id.au...s-hell-gehenna/
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#31 SteampunkScientist

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Posted 17 July 2016 - 12:55 PM

Dire, one more thing... proverbs 31. The wife in that chapter started her own business selling cloth, then buys and sells land. That means she works to help her husband provide for the family.

Just wanted to point that out.

Thanks Steam I re-visited proverbs 31 a while back, and found that the description of this women to be incredible. Recently I read that it was written to give praise to women and the diverse roles they play in life but not necessarily a list of qualities a Christian or Jewish women would have. The reason I wanted to add that in there is because lately I've been reading up on equality and there exists Christians who believe in biblical equality and they suggest that holding women or men to gender roles in the bible is harmful and therefore while this gives an example of a women performing lots of roles for the family one women may not work outside a home, one women may work outside the home but individually that should be decided with the family and not based on interpretations of the bible.

Understand Dire, but it does demonstrate that there is no Christian basis that says both partners (and that is what it is supposed to be, a partnership) cannot both be earning money for the family if conditions warrent.
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#32 Heirloom

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Posted 17 July 2016 - 12:59 PM

I regret posting , I should not give advise or comment.

 I wish you well.



#33 Direwolf13

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Posted 17 July 2016 - 01:29 PM

I regret posting , I should not give advise or comment.

I wish you well.

Why do you regret posting? I appreciate your support?

#34 Direwolf13

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Posted 17 July 2016 - 01:39 PM

Dire, one more thing... proverbs 31. The wife in that chapter started her own business selling cloth, then buys and sells land. That means she works to help her husband provide for the family.

Just wanted to point that out.

Thanks Steam I re-visited proverbs 31 a while back, and found that the description of this women to be incredible. Recently I read that it was written to give praise to women and the diverse roles they play in life but not necessarily a list of qualities a Christian or Jewish women would have. The reason I wanted to add that in there is because lately I've been reading up on equality and there exists Christians who believe in biblical equality and they suggest that holding women or men to gender roles in the bible is harmful and therefore while this gives an example of a women performing lots of roles for the family one women may not work outside a home, one women may work outside the home but individually that should be decided with the family and not based on interpretations of the bible.
Understand Dire, but it does demonstrate that there is no Christian basis that says both partners (and that is what it is supposed to be, a partnership) cannot both be earning money for the family if conditions warrent.
I agree, and I think on the opposite end, both partners can share child rearing and domestic responsibilities when warrented. I believe as a whole there is not much specific instruction to individual gender roles, there are 2 things women do that men can not. 1. Labor/birth, and 2. Breast feed. Everything else is shared responsibility and can be different from family to family. There are some men and some women who feel that they are unable to rear children or be fulfilled in the home, and there are some that are. In our family we both have equal capibilities to earn and care but my wife wants to hold onto a 1950's family model as if that is what the patriarchs were referring to in early Roman writings. Proverbs 31 gives this picture of a women doing it all which is quite different then the image that is portrayed today. But when you analyze all the women presented in the bible, you will never find a leave it to beaver mom. You find prostitues, Warriors, leaders, ever rulers of Israel. So where does this house wife image come from?

#35 Heirloom

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Posted 17 July 2016 - 03:03 PM

I regret posting because I can offer no advise that can help you.
I do support you  and care about your family and you. They need you.

I interpret bible verses by reading and prayer , getting my answer from above.

I won't  dispute things preachers say like they deserve being paid for preaching, they will bring up old testament verses like the oxen turning the grinding wheel deserve to eat that which falls on the floor. I agree animals working deserve food. The Followers of Jesus never ask for money.

Those who truly believe don't want money.

  Jesus never asked anyone for money. He had no place to  live, out in the world like the homeless
A person can use bible verses to justify anything.

I believe a dad can  nurture kids.

those who teach how to grow never ask for $


 


Edited by Heirloom Spores, 17 July 2016 - 03:09 PM.

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#36 Alder Logs

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Posted 17 July 2016 - 04:10 PM

Jesus was a man.  When he overcame the world, he was self realized, the Christ.   The Christ, like the Tao, will not be revealed within the print of a book.  The book will find its spirit for us by our overcoming of our own particular worlds.  

 

This post may or may not be true.   Why was it written?


Edited by Alder Logs, 17 July 2016 - 04:30 PM.

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#37 SteampunkScientist

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Posted 17 July 2016 - 04:28 PM

It was written to show us what is possible, but not necessarily how to get there.
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#38 Alder Logs

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Posted 17 July 2016 - 04:31 PM

It was written to show us what is possible, but not necessarily how to get there.

 

Ah, I got bitten by my ambiguity. 

 

Edit done.

 

If I was a monkey with a typewriter I would get fired, not being completely random.


Edited by Alder Logs, 17 July 2016 - 04:33 PM.

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#39 oneeye1

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Posted 15 November 2016 - 10:52 AM

Incrediblt sorry to the op may you find peace and happiness

Over here in the uk organised religion is pretty much dead no one other than old people go to church or infact believe very much of what the big religions stand for
I didnt even christen my kids whats the point
I cant imagine living a life where organised religion / brainwashing ruled
I actualyy detest religion inthe form that it has become in some parts if the wlorld
I am tho a free spirit and absolutly wish good on all
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