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Self Reliance vs Exclusionary Croneyism: the UK vote


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#1 SteampunkScientist

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Posted 24 June 2016 - 11:38 AM

The vote in the UK to leave the EU warms the cockles of my heart as I see it as a vote for self reliance. Rejecting the desires of the elites the people of the UK said "no more!" I love it. I hope the same for the USA. Freedom and Liberty must prevail against the caste system of a ruling class that thinks itself "better" when they clearly are not. This is a step in the right direction.
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#2 Juthro

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Posted 24 June 2016 - 02:01 PM

I admittedly have not followed this closely, and don't have a solid understanding of the topic. But I know there is a lot of BS spin, from both sides.


I'm not convinced that this is a great move for Briton, because to do business, and trade with members EU they are still going to have to abide by most of their rules and regs.

[Direct Link]




I love the song at the end of this vid.
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#3 SteampunkScientist

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Posted 24 June 2016 - 04:10 PM

Personally I think most of the "experts" are the same people who are causing many of the horrific problems we are seeing in the world. Many are the same groups who we on this forum criticize for basically sucking up the wealth from the working classes. Will the UK have difficulties over the next few years? Yes, of course. But from the polls and reports I've read, many Britons are more concerned about national sovereignty and borders being flooded with people who want to change the country. Mainly the importation of Sharia law being a major factor.

I believe in ten years or less the UK will have gained much ground and become an economic powerhouse compared to what they are today. I could certainly be wrong about that, and I'm sure the elites won't stand idlely by either...
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#4 TVCasualty

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Posted 25 June 2016 - 09:22 AM

It's an abstract paper-shuffle that will induce a lot of potentially-lucrative chaos for those who position themselves to profit from it.

 

"The markets" fear and loathe volatility, but that's because they are controlled by status-quomongers who never learned how to surf because they assumed they could always just build another jetty to stop any big waves that threaten their calm, orderly bays.

 

For those who know how to surf or are not afraid to learn, this could very well be the opportunity of a lifetime. It might be an unmitigated disaster as far as the global economy and international politics are concerned, but they're both already arguably disasters unfolding in slow-motion so picking up the pace at least means more players can jump in and win big before the game falls apart entirely over the next 20-30 years or so.

 

Or to use another metaphor, lots of massive and sturdy old economic oak trees are going to be snapped and splintered in this storm while the modest, highly-flexible grasses will just dance.


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#5 SteampunkScientist

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Posted 25 June 2016 - 05:44 PM

That dance you speak of TV is called "market trend following" and those who learn to trade in those kinds of markets can make huge returns. I'm reading books by Andreas Clenow and Michael Covel (and the inventor of trend following software Ed Seykota) who all do this in these markets and all became rich from relatively modest investments.

#6 hyphaenation

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Posted 25 June 2016 - 05:46 PM

Seeing facists like Farage , Le Penn and Wilder celebrating made me cringe and realize Brexit did not take place for reasons I can get behind.

The only positive I see in this is that it will be a catalyst for an independent Scotland.
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#7 SteampunkScientist

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Posted 25 June 2016 - 05:51 PM

Are you talking Geert Wilder? What's you beef with him? Personally I like his stance against islam.

#8 hyphaenation

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Posted 25 June 2016 - 05:57 PM

To much hate for me.

Hate begets hate. Hate feeds war. War is a cylcle...

Everyone has an opinion. Mine is I dislike xenophobic facists.

#9 SteampunkScientist

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Posted 25 June 2016 - 06:05 PM

I don't know enough about his positions other than the few things I've heard on militant islam, that's why I asked.

#10 hyphaenation

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Posted 25 June 2016 - 07:19 PM

What do you think of Geert Wilders anti-marijuana policies?

" (PVV) led by Geert Wilders and the conservative-liberal party (VVD) are in favour of the recently introduced 'cannabis pass' that excludes non-resident foreigners and obliges residents to register as a member of private-club type coffeeshops."

"The populist, anti-immigration and anti-Islam party PVV, led by Geert Wilders, is in favour of a harder approach, even when the leader of the first populist Dutch party, the murdered Pim Fortuyn, has always been completely open about his conviction that all drugs must be legally regulated."

What part of a "hard approach"on drug policy is a good thing?

#11 SteampunkScientist

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Posted 25 June 2016 - 07:30 PM

I agree with you hyphen on that, if he is for freedom, as he says he is, then he should be for freedom across the board. So I would have a hard time with that policy.

#12 hyphaenation

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Posted 25 June 2016 - 07:42 PM

I do think decentralization is good. More local control is good. Globalizism is not something I believe in.

But as far as Brexit it seems the champions of it are people I do not agree with. Time will tell if its a good thing or not.

I will say that I don't support the North American Union for a bunch of reasons. Not to say I support rampant nationalism and borders either. Its a tough balance.

Edited by hyphaenation, 25 June 2016 - 08:07 PM.

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#13 SteampunkScientist

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Posted 25 June 2016 - 08:13 PM

Well Hyphen I look at it from a personal perspective outwards. I have a border called my "home". I invite into my home family, friends and those I feel I can trust. Strangers who may do me harm I do not invite in. I have "means" available to keep undesirables out of my borders.

Within my home I have freedom which is due in part to the security of its borders.

I believe this is scalable. There should be no place for the evil-doer. Within this structure "do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the law... love is the law, love under will".

A libertarian viewpoint, but one which, given the proclivities if man, works well I think.

Edited by SteampunkScientist, 25 June 2016 - 08:14 PM.

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#14 Myc

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Posted 26 June 2016 - 08:33 AM

Until we are able to break the hold of the global fractional reserve banking system there will only ever be the appearance or illusion of choice offered to the nations who use such a system. Wars will be continuous and perpetual - just look at the 1900's. Totalitarian control and global collapse followed by a global depression which will make our Great Depression look like a dress rehearsal is the ultimate outcome. No one will be exempt - no nation - no person.

 

We can't fix this. 

It's like trying to stop a moving flywheel with bare hands. Too much momentum and kinetic energy. Best to let physics take over and just be ready with a broom and a dust-pan for cleaning up the aftermath. 

Hoping to fix this problem through legislation is the same as suggesting that if all of humanity would simply jump - in concert, in the same direction - we could effect the rotation of the Earth for more than a mere instant. 


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#15 Alder Logs

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Posted 26 June 2016 - 10:28 AM

Materialist rules do not apply in non-material realms.  I would say they don't apply anywhere, but the illusion is a strong one that matter is solid.  Keep your eyes open and your ear to the ground.   Expect to be surprised.  

 

Don't let it get you down

It's only castles burning...


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#16 TVCasualty

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Posted 26 June 2016 - 10:54 AM

That dance you speak of TV is called "market trend following" and those who learn to trade in those kinds of markets can make huge returns. I'm reading books by Andreas Clenow and Michael Covel (and the inventor of trend following software Ed Seykota) who all do this in these markets and all became rich from relatively modest investments.

 

The entire economy as it stands is one of those metaphorical oak trees.

 

The leaves and smaller branches may dance and sway in the shifting winds (e.g. the people you alluded to above), but the center stem that ultimately holds them all up is rigidly fixed in place and as such cannot endure such forces acting upon it beyond a certain level.

 

Too bad for us that we can't predict exactly what that threshold is until after we cross it, and once that happens there will be no fixing it (we'd have to grow a whole new tree over the course of the next few centuries and use the old one as firewood).

 

I've seen plenty of yards that were cleared of all trees by F-5 tornadoes but whose lawns were still largely intact.



#17 rainbowsmurf

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Posted 26 June 2016 - 02:54 PM

The vote in the UK to leave the EU warms the cockles of my heart as I see it as a vote for self reliance. Rejecting the desires of the elites the people of the UK said "no more!" I love it. I hope the same for the USA. Freedom and Liberty must prevail against the caste system of a ruling class that thinks itself "better" when they clearly are not. This is a step in the right direction.

 It is indeed a great step in the right direction but alas may well be scuppered by the Scottish who want to stay in Europe as England are Scotland's cash cow and if the Uk leave, Scotland will not be allowed to stay in Europe on their own. 

 

Not only that but it seems that Europe itself has only now released plans for a so called independent peace keeping Army for which every person will have to do National Service. The last time this happened was in the 1930's, it was called the SS and was run by Hitler! I'm not sure if the claims are true, but it is quite chilling, as was the warning from Europe on hearing the result... It said that there are 27 member countries that make up the European Union and there will still be 27 if and when the Uk leave. As it will take up to 2 years to fully exit, there is no reason for the panic as yet. (ho hum)

 

There are 53 Common wealth Countries, there are other countries to trade with like USA, Japan, Russia etc, can't think off the top of my head so why should a lot of the UK'S trade be dictated by a a European power that only has its own interests at heart.

 

I seriously doubt that either the leave or stay campaigners told the whole truth about the possible effects on leaving so it will very much be played by ear. 

 

Don't forget though , Iceland had its very own uprising a few years ago and are doing very well.. though this is rarely in the news. If they were in crisis, I am sure it would have been all over the news then as now. 

 

Meh. What do I know? I am just a simple person with simple tastes and am glad that the people in the UK have grown a spine and said enough is enough. 

 

Who knows what will happen next? Not me, but it is a bloody good start!



#18 Alder Logs

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Posted 26 June 2016 - 03:35 PM

What did the EU have to say about Brits residing in other EU countries?   I heard one subject of Her Majesty mention a few weeks ago that this vote could affect his ability to live in Portugal. 


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#19 TVCasualty

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Posted 30 June 2016 - 10:33 AM

Too bad this didn't happen until after ~£5 billion (£13 billion today, or ~$17 billion U.S.) was likely wasted on building the Chunnel. 



#20 August West

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Posted 30 June 2016 - 10:37 PM

Too bad this didn't happen until after ~£5 billion (£13 billion today, or ~$17 billion U.S.) was likely wasted on building the Chunnel. 

Dude, Cannibalistic Humanoid Underground Dwellers is one of my all-time favorite movi....ohhhhhhh - Chunnel. Never mind.


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