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100%+ BE in a mycobag- recipe and techniques


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#1 kcmoxtractor

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Posted 12 July 2016 - 01:39 PM

It's been a long time since I posted anything in magic, this is the
recipe I developed in my hiatus. I wanted to give it thorough testing,
and I also wanted the recipe to contain ingredients that are easily
sourced in any area, urban or rural. This tek is super high yielding,
I get over 5 dry oz per bag in three flushes, which equates to ~120% BE.

I inoculate each bag with only a cup of grain spawn (~5% spawn rate),
so a quart of spawn will easily yield over a dry pound. You can also
use LC (60cc) or slurry to inoculate these bags because the beet pulp
and bran contain so much protein that grain spawn isn't necessary. I
would be curious to see these bags injected with spores if anyone wants
to give it a go!

1 quart coco coir
1 quart compost/manure/castings
250 gr bran
250 gr straw pellets
250 gr beet pulp shreds
42 gr CaCO3

Instructions

Weigh your coir brick, then multiply that weight by 4 and add that many
mL of water. For example- say a coir brick weighs 700 grams, then you
add 2800mL (3 quarts) of water.

Mix an equal volume of coir and composted material together. Slowly bring
the moisture content up to field capacity to avoid going past optimal
moisture content. I normally do 4 bricks of coir (approx 10 gallons) per
1.5 cu ft (approx 10 gallons) of compost. That is enough coir/compost mix
for 40 substrates.

Scoop 2 quarts of the coco/compost mix into a mycobag, then add a quart
of water. After adding the water, add the beet pulp, then straw, then bran
and lime. If you want, you can mix the substrates together in the mycobag
and minimize mess, or you can mix it all together in a bowl and dump it into
the bag.

Once the bags are filled, fold them over and PC at 248F for a minimum of
3 hours or 210F for 24 hrs.

I attached a bunch of pictures from the test runs, I tried some cased and some
uncased just to see, didn't see much of a yield difference. This greenhouse was
kept between 75-80% rh, I got the uncased subs to pin aggressively by cutting
the corners on the bags down to the bottom of the sub. The plastic staying on
the sides of the sub creates a humid enough micro-climate to promote pinning,
and the lowered humidity in the greenhouse prevents mildew from growing
on the floor and under the bags on the shelving itself.

Attached Thumbnails

  • mushrooms.jpg
  • AA+.jpg
  • 20160104_135949.jpg
  • 20160104_140012.jpg
  • 20160105_131205.jpg
  • 1452302204424.jpg
  • 1452302226764.jpg

Edited by coorsmikey, 13 July 2016 - 02:55 AM.
Added tags for organization

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#2 Juthro

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Posted 12 July 2016 - 02:21 PM

Good to see you, KC :)

Amazing work, and great pics and write up, too.

Thanks for sharing it brother.
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#3 Cue

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Posted 12 July 2016 - 03:53 PM

 

100%+

More than 100%?

So you got more than you put into it?

BTW, 4 out of 3 people aren't good in math.


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#4 Microbe

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Posted 12 July 2016 - 04:32 PM

Nice to see you around again kc. You could have easily pushed 150% BE if all the surface pushed out some fruits. A stretch goal of mine is 150% BE so this is exciting to see!
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#5 Cue

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Posted 12 July 2016 - 04:36 PM

So you guys are getting more out than you are putting in?

 

I guess I'm one of the 4 out of 3. :tinfoil:


Edited by Cue, 12 July 2016 - 04:39 PM.


#6 Microbe

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Posted 12 July 2016 - 04:45 PM

100%+

More than 100%?
So you got more than you put into it?
BTW, 4 out of 3 people aren't good in math.
It is very possible to produce a yield that is higher then the dry weight of a substrate. Keep in mind, and i know you know this, mushrooms are made up of mostly water. As long as you continue to keep enough water in the substrate and there are nutes, it will continue to produce. Mycelium will use the water at a much faster rate then depleting the nutes so the key is to keep enough water in the sub to be turned into mushrooms.

Nutrients = energy
Water = fruits and weight

With that being said and seems how water makes up 90% of the mushroom, it is not considered a ingredient because it has no nutritional value or a energy source. Therefore to accurately measure BE you compare with the dry weight of the sub. I have some plans that may set me up to reach my stretch goal of 150% BE and hope to attempt soon.

#7 Cue

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Posted 12 July 2016 - 04:52 PM

If you are going to consider water as the final weight then you must consider water in your initial weight to come up with BE.

I'm just waiting to see ya'lls perpetual motion machine.



#8 Microbe

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Posted 12 July 2016 - 05:03 PM

If you are going to consider water as the final weight then you must consider water in your initial weight to come up with BE.
I'm just waiting to see ya'lls perpetual motion machine.

For magic purposes i get it because we dry them, but for fresh edibles or any other mushrooms sold fresh, water is not part of the BE for 2 reasons, 1 there is no nutritional value.

Water is pushed into the fruits, it is not broken down and converted into energy by the myc. Its not even converted. It is pushed into matted mycelium aka the mushroom. The water is simply just being displaced using the energy that is provided from the nutrients within the substrate.

For the purpose of actives and drying them, that^ is flawed because and should go off of dry weight. If anyone here can produce 1 lb of dry fruits from 1 lb of dry sub, then that would be very special to me.
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#9 coorsmikey

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Posted 12 July 2016 - 05:03 PM

Fresh mushrooms vs dry substrate = BE

http://www.fanaticus.com/ripsnort.htm

BIOLOGICAL EFFICIENCY (from Fungi Perfecti Catalog)

Biological Efficiency is a term frequently used in the mushroom industry to describe yield potentials of mushrooms from various agricultural by-products (straw, sawdust, sugar cane bagasse, banana fonds and coffee plant wastes, to name a few). This formula was first developed by the Button mushroom (Agaricus) industry.
Simply put, a yield of 1 lb. of fresh mushrooms from 1 lb. of dry substrate is considered to be 100% Biological Efficiency. Since mushrooms are approximately 90% water and the base substrate is typically raised to 75% moisture, 100% Biological Efficiency is equivalent to saying that 25% of the wet mass of the substrate is converted into fresh mushrooms.

Although such yield efficiencies are commonly achieved by experienced growers, many choose not to "chase the optimum", as their growing rooms can be better utilized by cycling in fresher material.
PF's comments

With some simple math and a little analysis, it can be readily seen that PF substrate is well over 100% "Biological Efficiency". RipSnort reports that his Treasure Coast shroom fruiting was had by quartering a PF cake and using the 4 pieces in seperate containers in which the quartered pieces were cased. This means that each fruiting tray above contains about 1/16 of a cup of brown rice powder and about twice as much vermiculite, plus the casing.

In a normal PF 1/2 pint cake, there is about 31 grams of brown rice powder (1/4 cup) and about 17-20 grams of vermiculite (1/2 - 2/3 cup) which adds up to about 50 grams dry weight. It can be conservatively stated that a properly cultivated PF 1/2 pint cake can produce (with several flushes) at least 10 grams of dry shrooms (100 grams wet weight). By using the above biological efficiency formula - this equals an easy 200% biological efficiency for that 1/2 pint PF cake (50 grams of dry substrate producing 100 grams of wet shrooms is twice efficiency - the wet shroom weight is twice the weight of the dry substrate, or in other words - 200%).

This amazing ability of cubensis shroom races to fruit on PF substrate has made the PF TEK the new fundamental of cubensis shroom cultivation. The PF TEK can be used straight PF style (mini culture) to get great fruitings of diverse cubensis races, or can be utilized in more mega style cultivations with trays or larger containers with more massive substrate amounts (compared to PF style Mini culture). What is being demonstrated at various mycophile web sites is PF substrate being mixed with various grains, soils and substrates with impressive fruitings on display. A certain percentage of PF substrate with any kind of cubie substrate results in big fruitings. AND, when PF substrate is used in these mega cultivation teks without the additional grain, fruitings are just as good, if not better. The RipSnort Treasure coasts are proof of the magic of the PF formula (brown rice powder and vermiculite).

The Discovery of the PF magic formula

Many years ago, PF grew cubies on many substrates and found brown rice to be the best grain for fruiting. The problems associated with using brown rice was that it was sticky when cooked up and unshakeable in quart style spawn jars. This creates many problems which thwarts the fruiting power of brown rice. In 1978, Dr Stephen Pollock published his book "Magic Mushroom Cultivation" and it featured a brown rice cake method using quart jars and growing the shrooms inside the jar. This tek has many flaws but had great potential.
Then in late October 1981, PF attended the Paul Stamets and Jeff Chilton Myco Media shroom conference at Orcas Island Washington. During a Stamets lecture, Stamets mentioned mixing vermiculite or perlite into grain substrates to get a better and easier shakeability. It was like a lighting bolt that hit PF, as he busily scribbled down some notes about this substrate mixing concept.

PF went home and began a series of experiments combining these two ideas (Pollocks rice cakes and Stamets vermiculite mixtures) which resulted in the PF TEK magic substrate formula, which has become the new fundamental magic mushroom growing and culturing medium.


Edited by coorsmikey, 12 July 2016 - 05:07 PM.

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#10 Microbe

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Posted 12 July 2016 - 05:09 PM

Get the mushrooms to utilize the water more efficiently and with less energy as possible, perhaps gypsum in the substrate, then as long as you can keep hydrating the sub and there are nutes, you can grow. You can grow until all the nutes are gone. This is how many reach or exceed 200% BE in the commercial industry.

Sorry KC, not trying to clutter your master piece and if i did, im sure you will delete it ;)

CUE and I dont get to talk much anymore so i always take the opportunity when i get it ;)

I do understand CUE's thought process though. It does seem silly for a species that we almost always extract the water back from.

Edited by Microbe77, 12 July 2016 - 05:13 PM.

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#11 Cue

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Posted 12 July 2016 - 05:16 PM

Fresh mushrooms vs dry substrate = BE

http://www.fanaticus.com/ripsnort.htm

BIOLOGICAL EFFICIENCY (from Fungi Perfecti Catalog)

Biological Efficiency is a term frequently used in the mushroom industry to describe yield potentials of mushrooms from various agricultural by-products (straw, sawdust, sugar cane bagasse, banana fonds and coffee plant wastes, to name a few). This formula was first developed by the Button mushroom (Agaricus) industry.
Simply put, a yield of 1 lb. of fresh mushrooms from 1 lb. of dry substrate is considered to be 100% Biological Efficiency. Since mushrooms are approximately 90% water and the base substrate is typically raised to 75% moisture, 100% Biological Efficiency is equivalent to saying that 25% of the wet mass of the substrate is converted into fresh mushrooms.

Although such yield efficiencies are commonly achieved by experienced growers, many choose not to "chase the optimum", as their growing rooms can be better utilized by cycling in fresher material.
PF's comments

With some simple math and a little analysis, it can be readily seen that PF substrate is well over 100% "Biological Efficiency". RipSnort reports that his Treasure Coast shroom fruiting was had by quartering a PF cake and using the 4 pieces in seperate containers in which the quartered pieces were cased. This means that each fruiting tray above contains about 1/16 of a cup of brown rice powder and about twice as much vermiculite, plus the casing.

In a normal PF 1/2 pint cake, there is about 31 grams of brown rice powder (1/4 cup) and about 17-20 grams of vermiculite (1/2 - 2/3 cup) which adds up to about 50 grams dry weight. It can be conservatively stated that a properly cultivated PF 1/2 pint cake can produce (with several flushes) at least 10 grams of dry shrooms (100 grams wet weight). By using the above biological efficiency formula - this equals an easy 200% biological efficiency for that 1/2 pint PF cake (50 grams of dry substrate producing 100 grams of wet shrooms is twice efficiency - the wet shroom weight is twice the weight of the dry substrate, or in other words - 200%).

This amazing ability of cubensis shroom races to fruit on PF substrate has made the PF TEK the new fundamental of cubensis shroom cultivation. The PF TEK can be used straight PF style (mini culture) to get great fruitings of diverse cubensis races, or can be utilized in more mega style cultivations with trays or larger containers with more massive substrate amounts (compared to PF style Mini culture). What is being demonstrated at various mycophile web sites is PF substrate being mixed with various grains, soils and substrates with impressive fruitings on display. A certain percentage of PF substrate with any kind of cubie substrate results in big fruitings. AND, when PF substrate is used in these mega cultivation teks without the additional grain, fruitings are just as good, if not better. The RipSnort Treasure coasts are proof of the magic of the PF formula (brown rice powder and vermiculite).

The Discovery of the PF magic formula

Many years ago, PF grew cubies on many substrates and found brown rice to be the best grain for fruiting. The problems associated with using brown rice was that it was sticky when cooked up and unshakeable in quart style spawn jars. This creates many problems which thwarts the fruiting power of brown rice. In 1978, Dr Stephen Pollock published his book "Magic Mushroom Cultivation" and it featured a brown rice cake method using quart jars and growing the shrooms inside the jar. This tek has many flaws but had great potential.
Then in late October 1981, PF attended the Paul Stamets and Jeff Chilton Myco Media shroom conference at Orcas Island Washington. During a Stamets lecture, Stamets mentioned mixing vermiculite or perlite into grain substrates to get a better and easier shakeability. It was like a lighting bolt that hit PF, as he busily scribbled down some notes about this substrate mixing concept.

PF went home and began a series of experiments combining these two ideas (Pollocks rice cakes and Stamets vermiculite mixtures) which resulted in the PF TEK magic substrate formula, which has become the new fundamental magic mushroom growing and culturing medium.

 

Then I stand corrected.

I guess that according to that you can get more than you put into it.

Not saying that I agree with it. It must be that new math shit.



#12 coorsmikey

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Posted 12 July 2016 - 05:19 PM

Sure would be nice to get 10lbs of fresh shooms from 1lb of substrate.

#13 Cue

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Posted 12 July 2016 - 05:50 PM

Sure would be nice to get 10lbs of fresh shooms from 1lb of substrate.

Apparently 2 pounds isn't too much to hope for. :blush:

I feel blessed to just get 6 ounces from a tub. :biggrin:

 

But wait! Wouldn't that be 60 ounces?


Edited by Cue, 12 July 2016 - 05:51 PM.


#14 Cue

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Posted 12 July 2016 - 05:55 PM

 

Sure would be nice to get 10lbs of fresh shooms from 1lb of substrate.

Apparently 2 pounds isn't too much to hope for. :blush:

I feel blessed to just get 6 ounces from a tub. :biggrin:

 

But wait! Wouldn't that be 60 ounces?

 

So ounces of dry sub compared to dry weight. Taking water out of the equation altogether am I still able to  get more out than I put in?



#15 kcmoxtractor

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Posted 12 July 2016 - 06:05 PM

If you are going to consider water as the final weight then you must consider water in your initial weight to come up with BE.

I'm just waiting to see ya'lls perpetual motion machine.

 

you take the wet weight of output, and divide it by the dry weight of inputs, then multiply by 100

 

for the sake of an example-

 

5 dry oz is 1400 fresh grams

my subs contain approximately 1200 grams of dry material

 

BE is 1400/1200 = 1.1666 x 100 = 116% BE 


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#16 kcmoxtractor

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Posted 12 July 2016 - 06:12 PM

Nice to see you around again kc. You could have easily pushed 150% BE if all the surface pushed out some fruits. A stretch goal of mine is 150% BE so this is exciting to see!

 

i feel like i could easily hit 150% if i dunked and let it go 4 flushes. 

 

but

 

i do not dunk

i do not go past 3 flushes

 

i don't think it would make a difference in yield if more of the surface was covered in fruits

most high yielding species pretty much max out at a certain BE on the first flush, and the

genetics of the species just don't allow it go to further. i haven't been able to push oysters,

shiitake, or any other edible past a certain percentage BE range that is unique to that species. 


Edited by kcmoxtractor, 12 July 2016 - 06:12 PM.

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#17 Cue

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Posted 12 July 2016 - 06:22 PM

teacher high as fuck.jpeg 4x4.jpeg


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#18 datsun

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Posted 12 July 2016 - 08:16 PM

Welcome Back KCMO!



#19 Microbe

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Posted 13 July 2016 - 05:31 PM

Sure would be nice to get 10lbs of fresh shooms from 1lb of substrate.

Apparently 2 pounds isn't too much to hope for. :blush:
I feel blessed to just get 6 ounces from a tub.

But wait! Wouldn't that be 60 ounces?
It would be 60 wet ounces ;)
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#20 wharfrat

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Posted 13 July 2016 - 09:34 PM

Very well written. A tek i must try, maybe with MSS  :biggrin:

Thanks for taking them time for the write up. welcome back.


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