29 replies to this topic

[SteampunkScientist]

South Eastern USA. Have not seen chem trails at all over the last 3 to four weeks. They just "stopped".

Now, we are getting tons of very powerful thunderstorms and super high temperatures.

Anyone else noticed this? Seems... weird.

Edited by SteampunkScientist, 15 July 2016 - 05:58 PM.

[Alder Logs]

It's been cool and cloudy with intermittent rain here on the PNW Coast much of the spring and summer.   If they've been busy up there, we can't see it.

[Cybilopsin]

you really believe in chemtrails? this particular paranaoia never really made sense to me. what are they supposedly trying to do to us? why don't they just put it into the water supply or food?

 

how do you think life would be different if we weren't supposedly getting our daily dose of... what is it exactly anyway?

[TVCasualty]

That would make sense since the upper-level atmospheric conditions that are conducive to thunderstorms tend to inhibit contrail formation (I have yet to be convinced that the trails sometimes seen behind airplanes are anything but contrails).

[SteampunkScientist]

I'm not convinced...that said I have seen documents and devices that are claiming that certain companies and government agencies are doing chemical spray experimenting to attempt both weather control and reflective cooling. Now, is there a giant global conspiracy if this going on? I don't pretend to know, however I live next to an airport where I have seen odd phenomena which includes seeing one plane leaving very short trails that quickly and completely dissipate, while at the same time seeing another leave a long trail that seems to widen and is persistent. The plane "appear" to be flying at approximately the same level.

I could be completely wrong on this, and perhaps the phenomenon is completely natural. But there seems to be some evidence that something is going on.

I am not by any means an atmospheric expert, so I will just leave it at that.

[Alder Logs]

I think the one thing that most sold the idea to me was a weather satellite photo of the North Pacific with thousands of miles of that crosshatch pattern going in directions no one would be flying out there in the middle of the ocean.   I make frequent trips to the coast and on some bad days of that hight altitude haze that kill the efficiency of photoelectric collectors, I will see the planes reach the ends of their patterns and make right angle turns back out over the ocean.   When I am doing my Qi Gong exercises outside on a sunny morning and there are spaces between the residual haze of the con/chem trails; if the sun is in one of those spaces, I will be warm and happy.   When even the greatly expanded trail drifts into my sunbeams, the temperature plunges, though the sun is still bright.   It's obvious that the longer wavelengths have been reflected away. 

 

The persistent weather anomaly of the east side of the North American Continent staying way below long term average temperature, while the rest of the planet has been above the averages, makes it look to me that what HAARP is doing is using the metals particulate off the West Coast to do what its professed purpose of being an "ionospheric heater" to keep the stationary high pressure blocking the northern jet stream.   This has kept the jet stream looping to the Norther Canadian Rockies where it then turns back south creating the anomaly. 

 

Edited by Alder Logs, 17 July 2016 - 03:39 PM.

[TVCasualty]

I've been watching the Chemtrail phenomenon develop online since it first emerged, and the purported methods of, reasons for, and chems used have changed over time, which I thought was interesting.

 

The changes seemed to be in response to criticism that was hard to counter, so now the claims are coincidentally a lot harder to address without access to specialized testing equipment and such.

 

I'd like to be sure that I'm not being distracted by a red herring that isn't actually going on "up there" so that I don't end up failing to notice what's going on "down here."

 

 

This site is worth a look IMO: http://contrailscience.com/

[SteampunkScientist]

Good point TV. I guess I will also try to be more cognizant of false flags, heaven knows we have enough real ones... still, the weather has been a lot more active than recent memory....

[Alder Logs]

[Direct Link]

 

[Direct Link]

[SteampunkScientist]

This is one of those topics where the amount of information on both sides is so massive and confused, that I'm apt to think that there might very well be something else really going on.

What is the point of controlling the weather? Who benefits if the weather becomes catastrophic, if most of life is destroyed? This does not help any Elites, they will die too...

I don't get it... It's madness if this is really happening.

[BallisticMystic]

99% of the world couldn't give a shit one way or another because they have better things to worry about.

I'm with them :)

[Alder Logs]

[Direct Link]

[SteampunkScientist]

That sounds fairly grim...

 

Yet...:

Edited by SteampunkScientist, 15 August 2018 - 01:43 PM.

[August West]

you really believe in chemtrails? this particular paranaoia never really made sense to me. what are they supposedly trying to do to us? why don't they just put it into the water supply or food?
 
how do you think life would be different if we weren't supposedly getting our daily dose of... what is it exactly anyway?

Why does it necessarily have to be "happening to us"? Weather manipulation or geoengineering or whatever it may morph to next has pretty much been explicitly admitted. I'm not saying the classic "chemtrail" visual is that but I'm also not saying it isn't...

What if it is?

[SteampunkScientist]

Scientific honesty would force us to come at the whole "Contrail/Chemtrail" question in this manner:
 
1.) Question: What is a "Contrail"?
A - A Contrail is a "trail in the sky" of water condensation resulting from the cooling in the upper atmosphere of water vapor produced by the burning of fossil fuel in a jet engine.  It is essentially a steam trail in the sky, much like a long thin cloud and will dissipate (or not) in the exact way other clouds at this particular temperature, pressure, and altitude are also doing, scattering light in a similar fashion.
 
2.) Question: What is a "Chemtrail"?
A - A Chemtrail is a "trail in the sky" of a combination of water vapor and various chemical substances that does may or may not dissipate in the same manner and time as pure water based clouds due to the presence of other materials.  It is typically seen as an expanding line that appears to "grow" due to the effects of light scattering of particles that are not dissipating at the same speed or in the same manner as a normal Contrail.
 
3.) Is there any fully documented cases of "Chemtrails"?
A - Of course there are, "Rain-makers" have used chemicals for years, as well as those who attempt to put our fires, spray crops, etc.  There has been decades, nearly a century of spraying various substances from planes.  It is not "Rocket Science", and there are lots of papers, patents, inventions, and actual equipment that you can buy today to do this.
 
4.) Is there a coordinated effort by governments, businesses, or others to "secretly" seed the atmosphere with some sort of substances for some good, bad, nefarious, or other purpose, a "Secret Large-scale Atmospheric Program (SLAP)" ?
 
A - and here we get into the "sticky", controversial stuff,  This last is not really a scientific question. Scientific inquiry and experimentation can show us: Yes this plane or that one is spraying this or that (Using spectral absorption detectors on the ground on actual planes/trails in the sky and measuring the light coming through a suspect Con/Chem-trail would tell us this much) - but the purpose is outside the scope of SCIENCE.
 
And here we always step into the issue at hand.  The political, economic, or other reasons why this is going on get all mixed together with the science.  These questions are related of course, but they really need to be pursued as separate issues:
 
IS THIS HAPPENING?
 
WHY IS THIS HAPPENING?
 
2 very different questions.  My first 3 questions above demonstrate that mankind most certainly can do this.
 
But are we? Are some group of human beings actually directing some sub-set of all planes to spray substances in the sky?  What other explanation could there be?  Here are some:
 
1.) Incomplete burning of fuel is leaving petrol-by-products in the atmosphere.
2.) New additives in the J-1 jet fuel are creating this phenomenon.
3.) Years of air pollution with various substances (Chlorofluorocarbons perhaps? or other things) reacting with the exhaust of modern airplanes?
 
Are there peer-reviewed papers? Well, as a matter of fact there are:
 
Here is one against the idea: http://iopscience.io...1/8/084011/meta
Here is a collection "For the premise" (Plus lots of pro-chemtrail stuff) : https://www.bibliote...eatherwar20.htm
 
Hmmm.  as usual lots of stuff on both sides, and lots of yelling on each side against the other.
 
 
I have to take issue with some of the so-called facts that "Global Alert News" guy in those videos was saying - for example, 71% of all insect species are not extinct since the industrial revolution.  That is simply not true and there are many evidences for it not being true.  Of course if you go through the geological record, 99.9% of ALL species are extinct - but that can not be used as evidence for this - the world has had many "die-offs" over the last 2-3 billion years.
 
Forest Fires in California and elsewhere: As Proper forest management is, in fact, an issue - and proper forest management by real, trained, knowledgeable Foresters is not happening in California and has not happened for some time, and the fact that water management, etc has also not occurred for some time, can these forest fires all be laid down at the feet of "Global Geoengineering"?  Probably not.
 
 
One has to consider all of these things when approaching a question like this, and use a generous application of Occams razor here.  Are there more likely explanations?  Don't forget, a more likely explanation might be just as bad or worse!  But we need the truth, which unfortunately, is a hard commodity to come by these days.

Edited by SteampunkScientist, 16 August 2018 - 06:25 AM.

[Alder Logs]

Interview: EPA Scientist Sounds The Alarm On Geoengineering Contamination

 

[Direct Link]

[Alder Logs]

GeoengineeringWatch.Org weekly update.    

 

[Direct Link]

 

------------------============-----------------

 

 

 

https://theecologist...d-cost-us-earth

 

Engineering the climate could cost us the earth

 

Engineering the earth’s climate is nothing new. Capitalists, in coalition with alien overlords from Andromeda, have been at it for years.

 

 

[August West]

[Alder Logs]

Skywatcher: The Incredible True Story of Artificial Clouds and Weather Modification

[Direct Link]

[T0them00N]

Scientific honesty would force us to come at the whole "Contrail/Chemtrail" question in this manner:

1.) Question: What is a "Contrail"?
A - A Contrail is a "trail in the sky" of water condensation resulting from the cooling in the upper atmosphere of water vapor produced by the burning of fossil fuel in a jet engine. It is essentially a steam trail in the sky, much like a long thin cloud and will dissipate (or not) in the exact way other clouds at this particular temperature, pressure, and altitude are also doing, scattering light in a similar fashion.

2.) Question: What is a "Chemtrail"?
A - A Chemtrail is a "trail in the sky" of a combination of water vapor and various chemical substances that does may or may not dissipate in the same manner and time as pure water based clouds due to the presence of other materials. It is typically seen as an expanding line that appears to "grow" due to the effects of light scattering of particles that are not dissipating at the same speed or in the same manner as a normal Contrail.

3.) Is there any fully documented cases of "Chemtrails"?
A - Of course there are, "Rain-makers" have used chemicals for years, as well as those who attempt to put our fires, spray crops, etc. There has been decades, nearly a century of spraying various substances from planes. It is not "Rocket Science", and there are lots of papers, patents, inventions, and actual equipment that you can buy today to do this.

4.) Is there a coordinated effort by governments, businesses, or others to "secretly" seed the atmosphere with some sort of substances for some good, bad, nefarious, or other purpose, a "Secret Large-scale Atmospheric Program (SLAP)" ?

A - and here we get into the "sticky", controversial stuff, This last is not really a scientific question. Scientific inquiry and experimentation can show us: Yes this plane or that one is spraying this or that (Using spectral absorption detectors on the ground on actual planes/trails in the sky and measuring the light coming through a suspect Con/Chem-trail would tell us this much) - but the purpose is outside the scope of SCIENCE.

And here we always step into the issue at hand. The political, economic, or other reasons why this is going on get all mixed together with the science. These questions are related of course, but they really need to be pursued as separate issues:

IS THIS HAPPENING?

WHY IS THIS HAPPENING?

2 very different questions. My first 3 questions above demonstrate that mankind most certainly can do this.

But are we? Are some group of human beings actually directing some sub-set of all planes to spray substances in the sky? What other explanation could there be? Here are some:

1.) Incomplete burning of fuel is leaving petrol-by-products in the atmosphere.
2.) New additives in the J-1 jet fuel are creating this phenomenon.
3.) Years of air pollution with various substances (Chlorofluorocarbons perhaps? or other things) reacting with the exhaust of modern airplanes?

Are there peer-reviewed papers? Well, as a matter of fact there are:

Here is one against the idea: http://iopscience.io...1/8/084011/meta
Here is a collection "For the premise" (Plus lots of pro-chemtrail stuff) : https://www.bibliote...eatherwar20.htm

Hmmm. as usual lots of stuff on both sides, and lots of yelling on each side against the other.


I have to take issue with some of the so-called facts that "Global Alert News" guy in those videos was saying - for example, 71% of all insect species are not extinct since the industrial revolution. That is simply not true and there are many evidences for it not being true. Of course if you go through the geological record, 99.9% of ALL species are extinct - but that can not be used as evidence for this - the world has had many "die-offs" over the last 2-3 billion years.

Forest Fires in California and elsewhere: As Proper forest management is, in fact, an issue - and proper forest management by real, trained, knowledgeable Foresters is not happening in California and has not happened for some time, and the fact that water management, etc has also not occurred for some time, can these forest fires all be laid down at the feet of "Global Geoengineering"? Probably not.


One has to consider all of these things when approaching a question like this, and use a generous application of Occams razor here. Are there more likely explanations? Don't forget, a more likely explanation might be just as bad or worse! But we need the truth, which unfortunately, is a hard commodity to come by these days.

I believe there are patents on the devices and chemical make up which is public record and I've seen papers yes... I've also started reading patents. More likely scenarios? Absolutely make you wonder why with all of the technology changes over the last 40 years why chemicals at certain altitudes being sprayed hasn't changed

This isn't something that will end in my lifetime