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Deficiency conundrum


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#41 Essence

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Posted 20 October 2016 - 01:02 PM

There's way too many interventions being performed here. I'd say cool it, try to give the plants plenty of time to recover after repotting before doing anything. Imho you do not need to add any nutes, eps one salts, nothing to the water. Some of this recovery time should be spent with indirect light for allowing the plant to restart its natural cycles. Even a good soaking/flush may take a day or two for recovery.

The plants don't/didn't need nutes or additives they need time to heal and settle into the soil. If your repotting which you should seriously think about first please choose organic seed starter soil and do not add anything to it but rocks for drainage. Try giving it regular water for a week or two and let the plant grow some new leaves!

For the most part I agree with Direwolf13. Try to think of it in terms of weeks rather than days. We are past the point where quick responsiveness applies IMO. Definitely no more nutes or epsoms. Not for a long while. Most soils are good up to four weeks with no additives. Even with transplanting I would maybe try one or two plants at the most to compare. See which works best for your situation. Otherwise I wouldn't be in a hurry there either. I do highly recommend the aloe though. It will help the roots heal and it contains hormones which will aid in root development. It's not taken in the same way as nutes either so it won't have the adverse effects of most additives. If you've never tried it you'll be surprised. Makes a wonderful cloning gel. Easily as good as Clonex for much less money. In case you can't tell I'm into cheap organics LOL.

 

What we need is a Puff & Pass emoticon to keep us distracted while they heal. :biggrin:  


Edited by Essence, 20 October 2016 - 01:03 PM.

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#42 Direwolf13

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Posted 20 October 2016 - 08:12 PM

nook up some jars while your waiting for the girls to level out.  also consider your watering habits.  I like to water around where I imagine the roots are and to the edge of the pot evenly with a catsup bottle (thanks psybear). I feel it encourages that outward stretch your looking for looking for water during those dry periods.  if anything make her work for the water if she's looking.  don't over water!!!  look for those leaves to be praying at lights on then you know your in sync with her drinking patterns and until then water conservatively.  I never used more then 20 oz 3-4 days and thats during veg with fan on 24/7 (more then adequate ventilation).  the plant I was able to keep alive went through a phase similar to this and the less I did the better.  the plant was very happy in flower and matured well into 75 days where I had to cut it due to timming issues but the trichs were all still clear/milkly none were gold/copper/brown when I pulled her. she was happy, really happy and thriving in the living soil. hopefully this helps!


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#43 Shadowlord

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Posted 21 October 2016 - 02:13 PM

I've been doing all the above for the last 2 yrs Dire, that's why all the pics and conversation as I'm out of ideas.

Have seen where this leads, to dead plants, so I reported with brand new soil, ffof (hot stuff but then plants are big enough from prior experience )
Will post pics of them repotted. Roots look ok but I don't trust the creeping damage as that's how they die off.
There is nothing added from any other grows and removed as much of the soil from the roots as is practical without killing the plants.

Have looked at the roots under magnification and can't see any critters. If the die off continues, it is viral or beyond my ken. Have tried the remedies for just about every possibilities in the last 2 years. Will continue to try and solve the puzzle as long as I can.
Will post more pics and continue to update.
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#44 Essence

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Posted 21 October 2016 - 03:45 PM

I keep reading this whole thread over and over. The more I see the more I question my first diagnosis. K Toxicity. Viral or fungal are possibilities, which leads me back to a little more info on your water itself. Is it city or well? If it's well, is it community well? How do you prep and/or store your water? I hope you say well, because if it is a private well you can likely get the ppm test done for free by your county. If it's community well then who ever you pay the bill to might be able to help. Even the city systems may help. Lead and other toxins are a big topic for them. It would be worth inquiring. 


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#45 Shadowlord

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Posted 21 October 2016 - 07:28 PM

I'm right in the city, the water is tap and I leave it out at least 24hrs to de chlorinate.

Will see if the repot with all new soil works, if not maybe it's viral as I'm stumped after trying to solve this puzzle for 2 years.
But perseverance is the first thing this hobby taught me so I soldier on.
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#46 Direwolf13

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Posted 25 October 2016 - 01:31 AM

so any new sets come in? any signs of praying morning leaves? 


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#47 Shadowlord

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Posted 26 October 2016 - 01:09 AM

Plants that were repotted look better, getting bigger for sure.
Will post pics in another day or so.
The ones I left as is continued to struggle and repotted them.
Will see how things progress.
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#48 Direwolf13

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Posted 26 October 2016 - 09:57 PM

Give them plenty of time to recover, can we get a pick like 3 min before lights on?
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#49 Direwolf13

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Posted 26 October 2016 - 09:58 PM

Or first thing in their morning?
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#50 Shadowlord

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Posted 27 October 2016 - 11:47 AM

Will do, Dire.

They Are Liking The FFOF better than my half soil, half coir mix. I have a few potted up a couple days earlier than the other and there is a noticeable difference.
Will be keeping a close eye on them to see if I can isolate what the main cause is.
Will have pics up tonight or tomorrow and will take them shortly after the lights kick on.
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#51 Shadowlord

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Posted 27 October 2016 - 08:33 PM

Here's a few pics before lights on, with lights on and a little while later:20161027_155039.jpg
20161027_173001.jpg
20161027_183025.jpg
20161027_183145.jpg

#52 Shadowlord

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Posted 27 October 2016 - 08:36 PM

Meh, need to take some more shots, these aren't that great.
The first ones repotted were the best/strongest ones and they appear better off but still aren't the happiest.
Am hoping that they'll perk up after the next watering.

#53 Direwolf13

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Posted 28 October 2016 - 09:37 AM

They look good, we need to get those leaves up, but that could take another week just from the repotting. How often are you watering and how much?
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#54 fungi2bwith

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Posted 28 October 2016 - 10:57 AM

They are lookin' a lil' better.....


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#55 Shadowlord

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Posted 28 October 2016 - 01:41 PM

Am still letting them drink up/ dry the soil. Pots still weren't light enough for a full watering yet, just sprinkled a little on the top to keep the soil from getting to dry on top.

They were starting to pray this morning so will probably be ready for a plain watering when the lights coke on when I get home.

I pretty much expect them to take off in the new, fresh soil. I just need to document and take pictures all the way through so that the problem can be figured out if the problem returns.
The FFOF should have enough nutes to last uo to flowering, will see....

Thanks for following along folks.
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#56 fungi2bwith

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Posted 28 October 2016 - 02:29 PM

Did you start picking up your pots before watering yet? It is truly a good habit to get into...


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#57 Direwolf13

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Posted 28 October 2016 - 07:23 PM

With the watering I know it sounds silly but easy to over thin, less = more. Those girls don't need tons of water right now you want those roots looking for water not bathing in it. A pint around the the perimeter will be enough for 2-3 days . If your noticing the leaves going in the right direction that's a good sign, but if there's a flood they will go right back down so gingerly for old dire :) j/k but water is the only variable we are looking at right now anyway right?

I agree! Plenty of nitrogen in there to get you into flower. Liquid Fish bone meal will aid you in flower if you really want to add something else.
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#58 Shadowlord

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Posted 29 October 2016 - 02:07 PM

Have long used the pick up the pot method.
If it's been an over watering issue all this time it is because of saturating the soil. I may need to continue to drizzle a little water here and there until the plants are drinking the pot dry in a day or two max as they might just be suffering from wet feet.

They are perking up in the new soil and am only giving a little water to the bigger ones to keep them even and to not have it too dry on top but still damp at base.

Have been removing the dead or damaged leaves and kept the soil groomed to avoid FGs. Will continue as-is, if all is good as it looks, it was over saturation.
If the problem arises again, it's back to the drawing board :-)
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#59 Direwolf13

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Posted 30 October 2016 - 08:05 PM

Awesome this is great news! You can keep all the leaves on them, as they store nutrients and the plant will use them.

Just a heads up if you aren't aware, stressed plants, sick plants, deficient plants are all more susceptible to critters. And since things have been going the way they have is start maybe in a week doing a preventive neem/karanja emulsified in dish soap.

Even if it wasn't an over watering issue, it is possible to that it added to the problem. I'd stay doing what your doing by just pour a little on the top, in (concentric rings) every two days. They don't need that much water, your prolly checking on them so often anyways (I know id be) that your not really saving time by fully soaking the buckets. And even so, maybe down the road that will work but right now they don't really even have developed enough roots to be chugging water with the transplants ect. I know watering is relative to heat and ventilation and RH. But for me in the summer I'm a grow tent with 24/7 fan going I had similar looking problems until I starting syringe feeding and then moved up to plastic catsup bottle I got off amazon which held 22oz. Towards then end I increased water uptake but it was June and the plant was thriving. The most water I gave one a 15 gal soil pot was a gallon every 3-4 days. The one thing about watering every day is that the damp soil can attract fungal gnats.

Also invade your thinking of adding stuff during flowering I'd stay away from anything crazy and go with something like molasses, and liquid fish bone meal. No need for the fancy "nutes", or better yet get some red wigglers in there now so they can make food for you forever! I'm glad things are calming down for you keep posting pics! And every time you pick up water remember less is more. We always want to give our plants way more love then they need. Remember this is a plant that grows by it self at one point in time. Just leave it alone. If your looking for something to focus on get a cover crop going of some nitrogen fixing plants like clover, or some legumes!

Another easy watering method is sip trays, you may want to look into those if your not trying to water regularly with small amounts due to
Time constraints.
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#60 Shadowlord

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Posted 31 October 2016 - 09:30 PM

Perking up and praying a bit more.
Will take some new pics tomorrow and will be keeping on top of it.
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