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Legal Loophole for Religious Psych Use?


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#21 Ramble

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Posted 17 October 2016 - 12:13 PM

Another little Tidbit from the OMS's Facebook page

"New Year, New Sacraments!

Sacrament Offerings

[...]

I'm not sure they would be posting the stuff in such a public place if they weren't totally legit. I feel like it would be not only very risky, but also just plain stupid to have such an extensive list of brain melting goodies.


Edited by Sidestreet, 18 October 2016 - 05:05 AM.
Reads too much like spam...

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#22 Heirloom Spores

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Posted 17 October 2016 - 12:40 PM

Ramble are you saying you are a Vendor on here?


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#23 SteampunkScientist

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Posted 17 October 2016 - 10:19 PM

This is all well and good, this church using the organization of a church to construct a legal dome over using sacraments. The fact is we have the right to use them. This right is not recognized by the out of control legal system, but their inability to see truth, does not negate it.

We use them because we want to. That is all the law that is needed. As long as you do not abrogate the right of anyone else.

"Do what thou wilt!"

Edited by SteampunkScientist, 17 October 2016 - 10:21 PM.

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#24 Heirloom Spores

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Posted 17 October 2016 - 11:55 PM

Sorry Ramble I misunderstood and thought you were offering these items.

I think I would like to try a few of the products.

 


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#25 Ramble

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Posted 18 October 2016 - 02:52 AM

No worries Sidestreet :) I was just trying to show ballsy the OMS is when it comes to openly offering/selling Psychedelics. And I dig that philosophy Steampunk, it puts into words what I often fail to adequately explain when it comes to my stance on Psychedelics.
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#26 Sidestreet

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Posted 18 October 2016 - 05:09 AM

No worries Sidestreet :) I was just trying to show ballsy the OMS is when it comes to openly offering/selling Psychedelics. And I dig that philosophy Steampunk, it puts into words what I often fail to adequately explain when it comes to my stance on Psychedelics.

 

I didn't say anything yet!   :) 

 

Sorry, I edited your post above.  It really looked like an ad, and besides the fact that we have sponsors, we don't need that kind of spam here!  Too hot, whether actually offered or not.

 

They are ballsy as shit for even claiming they actually offer those things.  You'd be amazed at how ballsy some people can be.  Usually just before getting busted.

 

 

 

This is all well and good, this church using the organization of a church to construct a legal dome over using sacraments. The fact is we have the right to use them. This right is not recognized by the out of control legal system, but their inability to see truth, does not negate it.

We use them because we want to. That is all the law that is needed. As long as you do not abrogate the right of anyone else.

"Do what thou wilt!"

 

I agree with this completely, Steampunkscientist.  That is the whole context of any legal discussion here as far as I'm concerned: civil disobedience.

 

Edit: Updated the thread title


Edited by Sidestreet, 18 October 2016 - 06:13 AM.

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#27 Heirloom Spores

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Posted 18 October 2016 - 10:20 AM

I checked out the site as much as I could without being a member. I never heard a church that a person had to pay to
become a member. I understand all church's ask for donations to pays for lights,heat, air conditioning and things.

I mentioned I was a member of THC ministry but it cost nothing to join, though I did buy a book filled with legal rulings
and other info.

 I know that the card will not give me a free pass though.

Anyone familiar with the Andrews test ? its a religion test used by the courts. I believe any test to determine religion is unconstitutional.


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#28 Ramble

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Posted 18 October 2016 - 10:31 AM

Whoops, I meant to put Heirloom, haha, I was half asleep when I posted that sorry about the confusion guys. :p And that's totally alright, I understand 100% where your coming from as far as omitting some of that post.

As far as contacting them goes, messaging their Facebook page directly was the best way to communicate with them, they responded fairly quickly, Here's how the convo went, sorry in advanced if it's all over the place and hard to follow, I omitted my name as well as his for obvious reasons.
498498210.560058public.jpeg 498498220.729374public.png 498498229.339261public.jpeg 498498240.630100public.png 498498250.355259public.jpeg

Edited by Ramble, 18 October 2016 - 10:51 AM.

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#29 Heirloom Spores

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Posted 18 October 2016 - 11:43 AM

Ramble can you tell us about the courses they offer. I am interested in spiritual beliefs of all kinds and find wisdom in them.
I see a similar theme in diverse spiritual beliefs, not one that divides but instead unites .

I know I would like some legal protection, though in my state I would have to fight in court to be free.



#30 Ramble

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Posted 18 October 2016 - 11:48 AM

Yeah! No problem Heirloom! I'll post what I find out :)
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#31 catattack

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Posted 18 October 2016 - 11:57 AM

I am free because I know that I alone am morally responsible for everything I do. I am free, no matter what rules surround me. If I find them tolerable, I tolerate them; if I find them too obnoxious, I break them. I am free because I know that I alone am morally responsible for everything I do.

 

Robert A. Heinlein
 


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#32 Teonanacatl38

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Posted 18 October 2016 - 12:53 PM

Freedom is Self-Accountability.   When we delegate that which would naturally, and originally/primaly, be our responsibility....to some outside force (person, organization,machine, God, etc.)....we  forfeit our Freedom.

 

Think about it.

 

We live in an age of Registration, Consumerism, and Government.

 

Not one aspect of the current system, is unrelated or unconnected to any other part....and together they weave up the cohesive fabric of which our Racial Identity, and Perceptual  Experience is ensnared.

 

Cognitive advancement beyond the current psycho-physical matrices, on a Racial scale...must be suppressed through empowering a Dependancy based cultural Modus Operandi....and providing a non nutritious (external) means of satisfying the resultant psychological frustrations....thereby setting up a self perpetuating machine of addiction and striving....

 

 

"Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."

                 Ben Franklin


Edited by Teonanacatl38, 18 October 2016 - 12:57 PM.

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#33 catattack

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Posted 18 October 2016 - 01:10 PM

The cats have spoken.



#34 Egzoset

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Posted 18 October 2016 - 07:25 PM

Salutations WildEdibles,
 

...as soon as Canada does it U.S. will follow...


Hummm...  So i gather from this that the star of Justin MiniHarper Trudeau still shines high in the sky beyond our borders. I'm simply curious, what else do you think is planned which shall come from Canuck land on planet Itnoc (In The Name Of Children)?  Solely for the pleasure of discussion...

 

I mean, did you know before elections day about Margaret's troubled past with "mari-caca"?  Or Michel who died in an avanlance while scheduled to apear in court over possession charges?...  When there was still time to enlight our voting populace, did any US media ever care to mention that Trudeau actually voted WITH Harper on mandatory prison sentences for growing 6 plants (and now that he's in charge with a majority government the situation remains to be reversed), etc.

 

Now, how about extradition to serve life punishment in foreign countries.  Or even better yet, HOMICIDE by POLICE over CANNABIS in Montréal/Qc just a few hours from April 1st, to send some clear "political" message after only 5 months of the Liberal "legaleezation" reform?...  Etc., etc.

 

Ainsi soit-il!...  :tongue:

 

Good day, have fun!!  :cool:



#35 Alder Logs

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Posted 18 October 2016 - 08:46 PM

Freedom from accepting some notion or other of identity, by not identifying as any thought, that is freedom. 

 

 

Freedom is what you are, not something you fight for.
~Mooji


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#36 SteampunkScientist

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Posted 18 October 2016 - 09:55 PM

Freedom from accepting some notion or other of identity, by not identifying as any thought, that is freedom.



Freedom is what you are, not something you fight for.
~Mooji

Well, that's one definition anyway. A notion if you will. Must I accept it? And if I do, am I still free?

Edited by SteampunkScientist, 18 October 2016 - 09:57 PM.


#37 Alder Logs

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Posted 19 October 2016 - 12:06 AM

It is never the words or thoughts.   Freedom, as a concept, nailed down; would that be freedom? 


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#38 Ramble

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Posted 23 October 2016 - 01:03 AM

This is for Heirloom regarding the courses :)
498895241.179405public.png
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#39 TVCasualty

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Posted 23 October 2016 - 02:00 PM

I'm not a "joiner." So I have no interest in being part of a religious or quasi-religious group. 
 
But there are many roles to fill in the fight for the right of self-determination, and legitimizing the consumption of entheogens and such via bureaucratic means is one that some people are compelled to work on, and that's a good thing IMO even if it's not something I will participate in. It also insulates me from the consequences of any stupid or ill-informed actions taken by the group that I may not have supported or agreed with (and to be fair, it also insulates such groups from the consequences of any stupid or ill-informed actions taken by me!).
 
There was a warning tucked away at the beginning of the Book of the Subgenius that made quite an impression on me when I read it:
 

IGNORE THIS: FNORD: The term 'SubGenius' is used because it is the most mironic description possible, you fool. To practice and preach the same things is utter madness. Sometimes communication must be made more difficult and irritating than necessary, in order to convey certain dangerous complexities.
...

 

...to convey them without being imprisoned or killed, that is. In this context, "Preachers" should avoid "practicing" and "Practitioners" should avoid "preaching." Keeping the roles separate makes both groups (or types of individuals) MUCH more difficult to stop, and as we've seen with cases presented in this thread, doing both in the current legal climate makes an individual or group very easy to stop, or otherwise suppress.

 

 

Dark Ages come and go, and then come back. When the pendulum of cultural trends swings back away from personal freedom (e.g. the political climate takes a hard swing to the Right thanks to some perceived crisis or other), it's advantageous to not be on any handy lists of potential troublemakers, i.e. those who exercise their personal freedom in ways that are seen as immoral or "wrong" by the dominant majority, which would likely include members of any psychedelic-based group (whether it is "religious" or secular).
 
 
Heck, one of the things that terrifies the keepers of the status-quo about psychedelics is that this class of drugs tends to be highly-corrosive to rigid, pyramid-scheme type authoritarian hierarchies (and ossified dogmas), which are the 'bread and butter' of our contemporary (and highly-dysfunctional) culture. That's probably why there is a slight amount of official tolerance for specific groups who consume such substances, but none for the right of the individual to explore their own mind as he or she sees fit.

 

Besides, the idea that something is "legitimate" simply because an arbitrary number of people participate in it is a juvenile and absurd test of "legitimacy" that's more appropriate for inconsequential contexts, like analyzing fashion trends among teenagers or determining which TV show should get a People's Choice Award.


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#40 Heirloom Spores

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Posted 23 October 2016 - 02:54 PM

Nice words of wisdom TV. I checked out the church of the Sub Genius and found wisdom mixed with humor. Some who go there might be offended but if they continue reading with an open mind they will enjoy many laughs and help break down the rigidity
of belief systems.

 A person should understand that despite being a member of any group is not a free pass  and will mean going through the courts to
get your religious rights.  A person should be prepared to go to jail , court and prison if convicted and hoping to get overturned on appeal. A person should be prepared to pay a lot as a good team of lawyers will be needed.

Flying under the radar will help those who practice with minimal problems, so long as they don't sell or go door to door preaching about the wonders of psychedelics.

I know of a group called the third wave that wants people to form open public psychedelic communities  in their own cities.
A thing I think is unwise and I know will attract informants and problems.

 Still I enjoy learning about these groups and hope they can make some gains leading to social acceptance for individual use.






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