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Legal Loophole for Religious Psych Use?


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#41 Sidestreet

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Posted 23 October 2016 - 03:17 PM

 

...to convey them without being imprisoned or killed, that is. In this context, "Preachers" should avoid "practicing" and "Practitioners" should avoid "preaching."

 

That's goddamn brilliant.  I pretty much keep my "preaching" to the confines of this website for the exact reasons you mentioned.  For me, I think maybe the best time for preaching will be when I get older, if I bring my practice to an absolute minimum.   Presumably I'll be wise enough then to maximize my impact and my safety. 

 

I remember reading that Walter Pahnke, the grad student who designed the Good Friday Experiment, abstained from using any psychedelic until after the experiment was conducted.  That way, when he was presenting the idea, he was able to tell his supervisors honestly that he had never touched the drugs.  It was about maximizing his credibility and it was good for the cause.

 

 

 

Heck, one of the things that terrifies the keepers of the status-quo about psychedelics is that this class of drugs tends to be highly-corrosive to rigid, pyramid-scheme type authoritarian hierarchies.

 

This is an idea that I have heard a lot of times, but I'm not sure how true it is any more.  I mean, in the 60's LSD loomed large in the minds of LE and it was associated with freaks and radicals.  It still has that association but I wonder if the "keepers" are actually concerned that psychedelics can lead to anti-authoritarian views or if they just lump it in with other drugs in their minds.

 

I mean, I don't know that there's any one subset of the drug culture that is more wary of LE than another.  Crack will get you just as busted as LSD, but we're all on the DL.  Of course the average crack user will be a much different person than the average LSD user, but beyond the different techniques for investigation, does LE really care?

 

I'd be really interested to see any good info on this...

 

 

 

 

I know of a group called the third wave that wants people to form open public psychedelic communities  in their own cities.
A thing I think is unwise and I know will attract informants and problems.

 

I bet most people who gather to use psychedelics as a sacrament feel something like early Christians, who also had to worship in secret because of a "hostile religious environment."


Edited by Sidestreet, 23 October 2016 - 03:24 PM.

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#42 Teonanacatl38

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Posted 23 October 2016 - 04:08 PM

 

 

Heck, one of the things that terrifies the keepers of the status-quo about psychedelics is that this class of drugs tends to be highly-corrosive to rigid, pyramid-scheme type authoritarian hierarchies.

 

This is an idea that I have heard a lot of times, but I'm not sure how true it is any more.  I mean, in the 60's LSD loomed large in the minds of LE and it was associated with freaks and radicals.  It still has that association but I wonder if the "keepers" are actually concerned that psychedelics can lead to anti-authoritarian views or if they just lump it in with other drugs in their minds.

 

I mean, I don't know that there's any one subset of the drug culture that is more wary of LE than another.  Crack will get you just as busted as LSD, but we're all on the DL.  Of course the average crack user will be a much different person than the average LSD user, but beyond the different techniques for investigation, does LE really care?

 

I'd be really interested to see any good info on this...

 

 

 

 

I would contend, that it means different things to different strata  of the LE *pyramid*

 

Grunt Cops, and their local branch  see $$$$ in a bust, and more revenue for their department.   They're  just the bitches of the managerial level.   Supervisors get their orders from the GM, and his, from the CEO...if you feel me. 

 

Now  lets  assume that  there's a prevalent amount of LE personnel...existing within any/all of these  levels... that are additionally members an outside special interest group :rolleyes: 

 

Shit rolls downhill, and by the time what was a initially a political  coup against a certain demographic, or an assist to some politicians forthcoming campaign.....reaches the enforcing grunts....The originating intention behind the initiative  has been lost to "The Telephone Game" effect.

 

All that to say...

LE doesn't care personally, they care financially. 

Their whole operation (corporation), is to be the chess pieces, for the individuals that design the moves.   It's these Designers, that give a shit, and understand the direct repercussions of psychedelics, and their consequences within the scope of the Game. 

 

Hate the Player, cause he keeps the Game alive.

 

Do psychedelics pose more of a threat to the (fucked) status quo, then say crack cocaine, or heroin....?

 

I don't see those guys learning and growing with other high-minded individuals in a self created online community :rolleyes: 

 

I also don't see the government having an issue with the same substances that they create/import :ph34r: 


Edited by Teonanacatl38, 23 October 2016 - 04:10 PM.

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#43 Heirloom Spores

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Posted 23 October 2016 - 04:55 PM

I believe that the USA's war on drugs have created the cartels and deadly leaders like Pablo Escobar and El Chapo.

I imagine that LE see's psychedelics as more dangerous that crack crank or heroin because psychedelic users want to change society. Change frightens those in power.


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#44 Teonanacatl38

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Posted 23 October 2016 - 05:25 PM

And let's not forget, that it is those same individuals that uphold and amend our Drug War Policies, who are responsible for both empowering and promoting these same cartels.

 

Example:  The Clintons.

 

Just google " Clintons drugs cocain guns CIA"......and just watch what comes up.  And that's while Bill was still just Governor of Arkansas.  Those two run real deep in the background. 

 

It's also  probably why they earned their spot in the Consortium.   Now Hillary's about to get her share of the power they keep passing around like a  community joint :dry:


Edited by Teonanacatl38, 23 October 2016 - 10:37 PM.

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#45 SteampunkScientist

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Posted 23 October 2016 - 08:24 PM

Our job is to change ourselves, to expand and explore our consciousness. And then to pass that information on using (and this is the key) USING the knowledge we have gained to go around these power hungry assholes.

Let me state this in more concrete terms:

With psychedelics we can read minds and transmit thought. We can divine future events. With enough practice we can move through time and space and communicate with otherworld entities. We can move objects. In a simple phrase: We can do magick. We evolve.

That fact is what they are afraid of. They cannot control us anymore. If a large percentage of the population were to learn and understand this, they would be out of power.

They will do anything to stop the knowledge of what I just said from spreading.

Anything.
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#46 TVCasualty

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Posted 24 October 2016 - 01:00 PM

This is an idea that I have heard a lot of times, but I'm not sure how true it is any more.  I mean, in the 60's LSD loomed large in the minds of LE and it was associated with freaks and radicals.  It still has that association but I wonder if the "keepers" are actually concerned that psychedelics can lead to anti-authoritarian views or if they just lump it in with other drugs in their minds.

 

In the 60's, the changes in thought and consciousness that psychedelics manifest were still new and radically-unfamiliar (and therefore scary) to the vast majority of the population. The propaganda certainly didn't help.

 

Psychedelics are still just as radical in that respect today as they ever were, but at this point we're also benefiting from some of the very types of changes that the status quo of the 60's was so terrified of because many of those early psychedelic pioneers went on to hold positions of power and influence in society (or produced educational children's TV shows, and influencing the minds of children is where fundamental changes to a society are achieved most efficiently since children don't require lots of tedious de-programming first).

 

As such, clinical studies of the once-taboo molecules are now being conducted legally again, a few groups have been legally-sanctioned to use psychedelic 'sacraments,' the public's perception of psychedelics is becoming steadily less reactionary and hysterical, and the propaganda has mellowed quite a bit.

 

In other words, to paraphrase a famous and relevant quote: The revolution is not being televised. (but it's a revolution-in-progress, so we still need to take great care that we don't get 'captured')

 

 

Also, the contemporary keepers of the status quo have likely begun to recognize that psychedelics are really the least of their concerns with regards to keeping things as they are. The sheer size and complexity of all of the various interconnected systems that civilization depends on (e.g. political, economic, environmental, technological, etc.) is becoming an existential threat to itself thanks to the intrinsic behavior of highly-complex systems, aka "Chaos Theory" (my all-time favorite Theory, by far!).

 

 

At this point it seems to me that those who pursue and develop "psychedelic" consciousness are more or less learning how to 'surf' the growing waves of unpredictability/Chaos (which are growing in both frequency and amplitude) while those who want to maintain society's present course are basically staring at the approaching series of existential tsunamis and crapping their proverbial pants (as anyone who doesn't know how to surf naturally would be).

 

A few oddballs waxing their surfboards on the beach are quickly becoming less and less relevant to them in terms of being viewed as threats to their perceived interests. While that's a good thing on some levels, it also means that we'd damned well better learn how to surf!
 


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#47 fungi2bwith

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Posted 24 October 2016 - 01:33 PM

I live in a state that has religious freedom laws....And I have researched this a lil bit.....And actually just wrote a letter to an already existing peyote church to find out how I go about getting documentation.

 

Basically a Declaration of Religious Belief has to be printed up, notarized, and filed with the county clerks office.....Then, in my state I am able to grow and consume sacraments (peyote, as I wouldn't push the envelope) for personal/religious use....

 

This declaration is usually issued to new members under their church, but an individual can also make and file their own declaration.

 

https://www.dropbox....WmBEG8yYea?dl=0



#48 Teonanacatl38

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Posted 24 October 2016 - 02:00 PM

Yea man...

 

If you send $50 to  the Peyote Way Church, Annie sends you back documentation to  get locally notarized, so that you can grow, eat, and  celebrate without retribution...in 5-7 states....for a year.

 

There's other benefits too...like fire privileges and such for ceremony.  

 

I did  that once :biggrin: 

After my year was up,  I decided to keep my $50 lol


Edited by Teonanacatl38, 24 October 2016 - 02:02 PM.


#49 Skywatcher

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Posted 24 October 2016 - 08:12 PM

REV. Annie at Peyote Way was a central figure for me in my time of transformation. Not only did the $50 donation get you notorized as a member, she also made herself available in those days for some deep and most helpful conversations, which I desperately needed.

 

I was at the time a heroin addict, hiding out from several warrants, out in the Colorado River desert.

I was at the end, one way or another, desperate and sick, and I was fortunate enough to meet  Rev. Anne at a most desperate time and place. Matthew was also very kind to me. It was not much of a leap for me to take the beliefs seriously, as I was no stranger to the use of psychedelics. They guided me, and eventually led me to my first real Spirit Walk. This experience completely changed me, and my life. 

 

I remained a member for many years, but eventually went my own way, following the lessons from the Teacher.

They were not so well known in those days, and also not so expensive. They took me knowing I was broke and on the edge, and out of kindness helped me to discover a better way. I went back after my Spirit walk, and repaired my life, (and my spirit).

 

This was around 1978, and they are a group I will always hold in respect and gratitude. I still occasionally speak with Rev, Anne, but not very often anymore.


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#50 sedaeng

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Posted 04 November 2016 - 09:50 PM

All right so I'm not sure where to post this, or if this kind of post is allowed if it's not please let me know I definitely don't want to rock the boat in anyway. But AnyWho I stumbled across this a little while ago and thought it might be useful for those of us who like to pursue Mycology as a hobby. There's an organization called the oratory of mystical sacraments that grants members the legal right to grow things that may not be legal.
Here's something taken directly from their website:

"Our members may legally POSSESS and UTILIZE healing and empowering sacraments such as Cannabis, Peyote, San Pedro, Ayahuasca / DMT, Psilocybe Mushrooms, Coca, Iboga, etc.. Members may legally PRODUCE / GROW sacraments for their own religious use but not for distributing to others.

One does not need to be Native American to register for membership. We are a Native American Church in the sense that we practice and build upon Indigenous traditions, and we are an authorized and blessed branch of Oklevueha Native American Church."

So yeah I just thought I would share that little tidbit of info I stumbled upon.

And again if this sort of post is not allowed please let me know and remove it.

-Ramble

 

Yes, good group to be a part of.  I listed them back in June here on the forums:

https://mycotopia.ne...-fyi/?p=1277030


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#51 Ramble

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Posted 04 November 2016 - 10:03 PM

Whoa! Groovy! I wonder why this thread got more momentum :/ so if you don't mind me asking, are you a member sedaeng?
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#52 sedaeng

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Posted 04 November 2016 - 10:08 PM

Whoa! Groovy! I wonder why this thread got more momentum :/ so if you don't mind me asking, are you a member sedaeng?

 

Yes, I am :)



#53 Ramble

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Posted 04 November 2016 - 10:21 PM

That's dope! Do you feel like it's a good organization to be a part of?

#54 sedaeng

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Posted 04 November 2016 - 10:36 PM

Im not 'active' with meetings, I do know they have had legal battles and won, so precedence has been set.

https://nativeameric...dum-to-the-dea/

 

 

UNITED STATES ATTORNEY GENERAL OFFICE – Memorandum to the Drug Enforcement Administration – 12/07/2000  

Our research has identified no religious organizations, other than the NAC, which would qualify for the exemption under these or similar procedural and substantive requirements.  It seems unlikely, therefore, that in practice the peyote exemption need be expanded beyond an exemption for the NAC.”  “If, however, a group does appear which can establish that it is a bona fide religion in which the actual use of peyote is central to established religious beliefs, practices, dogmas, or rituals, your agency is obligated to accord it the exemption under the current statutory scheme.”

 

Thats from the US Attorney General to the DEA.  There are other legal proclamations unique to the NAC as well.  


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#55 Ramble

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Posted 05 November 2016 - 01:31 AM

Wow, I guess that answers every question I've had in regards to whether or not joining could actually grant you immunity from the legal system, granted you aren't distributing or breaking any other laws

#56 catattack

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Posted 05 November 2016 - 11:47 AM

my wife and i did our dna with ancestry. turns out i'm 21% native american, apache according to my moms side of the family. my wife is 53% not sure what tribe thought.so our kids are about 36%.

 

Sorry for the off-topic but:

 

https://www.scientif...tabase-prompts/






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