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The Gaslighting of the Millennial Generation


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#1 Zen_

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Posted 23 October 2016 - 08:28 PM

I was in graduate school when I first heard the term “millennial.” It was at a conference. The session was about how to serve millennial students, because they have different characteristics than the Generation X students that went before them. It was here that I first started hearing things like “millennials need to be recognized for participation,” “millennials feel they are special,” “millennials are sheltered,” “millennials are likely to have helicopter parents,” and more. Society as a whole loves to hate on the millennial generation (those born between 1980-1999), calling us “special snowflakes” and sarcastically referring to us as “social justice warriors,” calling us out for “being offended by everything” and, everybody’s favorite, pointing out how very entitled we are.
 
Here’s the secret: We’re not.
 
The negative opinions directed at millennials are a perfect example, on an enormous societal scale, of cultural gaslighting.
 
 
WHAT’S GASLIGHTING?
Glad you asked. I learned about gaslighting within the last couple years as I explored topics surrounding emotional abuse and narcissism. Gaslighting is the psychological manipulation of making someone question their own sanity. It’s an emotional abuse tactic. It can also be described as “the attempt of one person to overwrite another person’s reality” (as defined in this article from Everyday Feminism).
 
Have you ever gotten into an argument with a parent, boss, or romantic partner about something they’ve done that upset you, but by the end of the argument, YOU’RE the one apologizing for hurting their feelings? This is often a result of gaslighting. They flip it around and become the victim, and your original feelings never get resolved because the conversation always descends into the other person’s victimization.
 
As one example from my life, when I first faced up to the fact that my first marriage was in real trouble and I was considering divorce, I (very calmly) asked my ex-husband if he’d consider marriage counseling. His response? “I cannot believe you can even ask that of me.” He was so offended by the suggestion that something was wrong that I questioned the validity of my feelings. “Oh my god,” I thought, “I must be terrible. Is anything even wrong or are my expectations just crazy?” This is an example of gaslighting.
 
Now imagine a similar scenario where you are applying for a job, but the job requires a college degree, but you can’t pay for a college degree without a job so you end up taking out massive loans. Then when you graduate, you still can’t get a job without experience. So you end up in a minimum wage job (or three), making ends meet and barely making your loan payments. You say something like, “the minimum wage needs to be raised, people can’t live like this,” only to receive a barrage of old, crotchety white people yelling at you about how gosh-darn ENTITLED you are, and how THEY got a college education working part time and how it’s your fault for taking out the loans in the first place.
 
This is what I’m talking about. Generations before us completely drove the bus into a lake and it’s somehow our fault everybody’s drowning.
 
working-on-laptop.jpg?w=620
 
 
WHAT ARE MILLENNIALS REALLY LIKE?
So if millennials aren’t a bunch of spoiled brats with an entitlement mentality who need a trophy just for putting on pants in the morning, what are they?
 
I am in a Facebook group of geeky women (mostly moms) from around the world, and our group is capped at 500 members. When it was discovered that two of our members were actively fighting to get out of physically and emotionally abusive marriages and needed money for legal help and deposits for moving, the group arranged a massive auction and hundreds of members donated their belongings and purchased in the auction to raise thousands of dollars.
 
When another member of that same group was faced with an unimaginable loss and an enormous bill, we had more auctions and helped her get through the worst moment of her life as best we could.
 
I have shipped pet supplies, groceries, books, clothing, and more to broke friends whose kids and cats were hungry, who have experienced loss and just couldn’t get up to “adult,” and to people who needed to receive a message to pull themselves out of a bad place.
 
I see us raising money for funeral expenses, medical bills, emergency surgeries for beloved pets, and more. I see us trading services or goods for other services or goods. I see us sending money via PayPal to make somebody’s day a little easier. I see us buying things from work-at-home-moms on Etsy or Facebook rather than support large corporate stores.
 
Once, I could feel a cold coming on but I was out of grocery budget, and a friend shipped me a box of tea from Amazon. I’ve sent her groceries and pet supplies when her budget was tapped. This is our generation.
We barter and trade, we lift each other up when we need it, and we empower each other.We have each other’s back.
 
help-each-other.jpg?w=620
 
 
BUT WHAT ARE THEY REEEEALLY LIKE?
Anecdotal evidence aside, here’s some science.
 
First of all, it’s important to note that there are some 80 million people in the millennial generation, making us the largest cohort in history. This makes us very fun and easy to study. I pulled some data from a 2012 report from the US Chamber of Commerce Foundation.
 
Millennials are tech-savvy, having been raised in the most technologically advancing decades of recent human history. We are optimistic (41% report satisfaction with the way the country is performing, compared to 26% of people over 30). Please note that this data was from 2012 and if I were a betting woman, I’d bet that fewer millennials are pleased with how the country is doing at this particular moment in time. 2016 has been rough.
“Young people are more tolerant of races and groups than older generations (47% vs. 19%) with 45% agreeing with preferential treatment to improve the position of minorities.” Not only are millennials the largest demographic, we’re also the most diverse. We are 60% non-Hispanic white (compared to 70% for older generations), 19% Hispanic, 14% black, 4% Asian, and 3% mixed race. Eleven percent of us are born to an immigrant parent. So the generation that hears “Why are you kids so offended by everything these days,” is offended because we’re sick and tired of seeing minorities vilified and punished by systemic racism within the system.
 
Millennials are multi-taskers. Multi-tasking is actually harmful to the brain and leads to a huge decrease in productivity. But, you know, we gotta work all these jobs and get everything done, lest we die penniless in the gutter.
 
Millennials are engaged and expressive: 75% have a social networking profile, 20% have posted a video of themselves online, 38% have 1-6 tattoos, 23% have non-earlobe piercings. The research indicates a trend toward “self-promoting,” which some skew to mean that millennials are self-confident (OH NO, THE HORROR) and self-absorbed. Others take this data to conclude that millennials are identifying their passions and making their own path instead of following others’ paths for them.
 
Millennials get their news from TV (65%) and online sources (59%).
 
Millennials may be the first generation in over 100 years to have a decrease of their average lifespan.
Millennials have a high graduation rate from high school (72% in 2012) and college enrollment rate (68% in 2012). Over half (58%) of millennials that enroll in a four-year college graduate within six years.
 
Millennials have an average of $25,000 in student loans. There is more student loan debt than credit card debt in the United States. Tuition rates are rising faster than inflation. However, enrollment continues to increase and there is a trend that jobs are paying more for more educated applicants.
 
On and on and on and on. Read the full report linked above for more statistics and research.
 
millennial-tattoo.jpg?w=620
 
 
MILLENNIALS STRUGGLE WITH MENTAL HEALTH
Most millennials I know struggle with mental illness to some degree. Anxiety, depression, bipolar disorder, and more. I wonder how much of that anxiety comes from being told that wanting a living wage, affordable college, or adequate healthcare means that you’re being a spoiled entitled brat. It really doesn’t. The generations before us HAD a living wage, affordable college, and adequate healthcare. But now, inflation has far surpassed the minimum wage, college tuition and loan interest rates are through the proverbial roof, and medical bills are the top cause of bankruptcy in America.
 
These things were not caused by millennials, but after being raised on a steady diet of “you’re entitled,” we don’t even need to hear it from other people.  We believe it about ourselves. As a society, we now romanticize struggle, busy-ness, and “the hustle.” If you’re not losing sleep and working two or three jobs, you must not want it enough.
What if we’re actually not crazy? What if wanting to work one full-time job and have the ends not only meet but actually overlap a little is NOT an entitled pipe dream?
 
The sheer stress of existing in today’s world is enough to give anybody an anxiety disorder. Add  the fact that we’re told over and over again how we need to just bootstrap it, because generations before us handled life just fine, and you have a recipe for disaster. The generations before us could afford college tuition on minimum wage and didn’t have bosses who expect us to be tied to our devices at all hours.
 
I often feel this way about our financial goals. I have a full-time job and bring in extra income from freelance marketing work and resume writing. I make “good money” by most standards. And I catch myself thinking I should be working a part time job in the evenings or on the weekends to make our financial goals happen faster. But at what cost? I know for a fact that my mental health would suffer if I did that. I can’t even imagine the psychological stress of people who have to work multiple jobs just to meet their basic needs. We’ve got people working two or three jobs to feed their families that they barely see. That’s not even getting into the cost of child care.
 
depression.jpg?w=620
 
 
More reading on millennials and mental health:

CONCLUSIONS (FOR NOW)
The millennial generation has been tasked with fixing the broken system we inherited and chastised for not doing it right or for daring to suggest improvements.
 
If you think we’re doing a bad job, ask yourself how it got this way in the first place.
 
 
 
https://bornagainmin...of-millennials/


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#2 Alder Logs

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Posted 23 October 2016 - 11:08 PM

Well in my day we....

 

Oh fuck it.  I was born into the boomer generation.  What can be generalized about that?


Edited by Alder Logs, 23 October 2016 - 11:09 PM.

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#3 JustAnEyedea

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Posted 23 October 2016 - 11:18 PM

I'm a millennial, and cannot stand the stereotypes. Mainly, because I know a lot of people my age that are true to them! I was just talking with someone the other day about how or generation develop a wide array of mental health issues. The response was, "Well, they couldn't diagnose that stuff back then". Why? Did they not exist?! Is that how a mental health issue got past physicians for 60 years? People are, like you said, living a life with so much stress that it's hard to just "live". People are trading their humanity for patriotism, drowning in debt, working jobs they hate to buy shit they don't need, and acting like it's commonplace. I have tried my best to not live by these stereotypes, because they disgust me. Then I realized I was just being myself, and I didn't have to try to not be like that, because I wasn't like that!

It's hard to survive in this day in age.
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#4 August West

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Posted 24 October 2016 - 12:58 AM

Here’s the secret: We’re not.

 

...................................................

 

CONCLUSIONS (FOR NOW)
The millennial generation has been tasked with fixing the broken system we inherited and chastised for not doing it right or for daring to suggest improvements.

If you think we’re doing a bad job, ask yourself how it got this way in the first place.

 

 

Here's the real secret: collectivism is dangerous.

 

Some of 'you' are the things you've described. Some of 'you' aren't. That's how shit works. There's no such thing as 'millennials' - only a bunch of individuals that fall into some arbitrarily drawn category. Imo, it's no more useful to vouch for a bunch of strangers than it is to disparage them. 

 

I don't believe the descriptions in "What's Gaslighting", are very accurate.

 

'Old crotchety white people' is a very telling use of language for this person's point of view. There's an equally low socio-political-economic understand of the person described as such as there is in the person who just thinks you can raise the minimum wage or forgive student debt without a lot of chaos. Nuance can be a motherfucker where the naive are concerned.

 

I don't see a lot of thoughtful 'improvements' on offer. But I'm all ears.


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#5 Teonanacatl38

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Posted 24 October 2016 - 09:13 AM

Here's the real secret: collectivism is dangerous.

 

Some of 'you' are the things you've described. Some of 'you' aren't. That's how shit works. There's no such thing as 'millennials' - only a bunch of individuals that fall into some arbitrarily drawn category. Imo, it's no more useful to vouch for a bunch of strangers than it is to disparage them. 

 

I don't believe the descriptions in "What's Gaslighting", are very accurate.

 

 

 

Even though that's a totally valid point (even sibling family members aren't  all the same)...

En mass, different generations of people, have been trained and sculpted, at the same point of their developmental cycles....to the same set of variables.   That counts...in a big way. 

 

People are a product of their environment...media and culture homogenizes.   

 

We never look at individual birds, we look at patterns and behavior of the flock at large.

 

If our generation, in just one state...say Tennessee...was sent back in time to 1950 to start their development....and then was reunited with the rest of us concurrently, after a 30 yeard period....

 

We'd notice a big difference

 

 

'Old crotchety white people' is a very telling use of language for this person's point of view. There's an equally low socio-political-economic understand of the person described as such as there is in the person who just thinks you can raise the minimum wage or forgive student debt without a lot of chaos. Nuance can be a motherfucker where the naive are concerned.

 

I don't see a lot of thoughtful 'improvements' on offer. But I'm all ears.

 

 

I  realize "Old crotchety White people" doesn't sound very pleasing....But lets be honest....

 

White people own the world (I'm ready to discuss, if you think I'm generalizing.) & it's the older generations who hold many (and pass down)  of the limiting beliefs that keep  people divided  and struggling.    Almost every one of my friends grandparents (including my own) are racist as hell lol....if you really ask them.

 

That's  just "how they were raised"...They were a "Product of their environment" :rolleyes: 

 

Free and Critical  thinkers, of all ages/generations, willing to bushwack a new path...creatively & continuously.....

 

That's what we need.  

 

Unfortunately, it takes a lot of gumption to leave the heard....even if they're collectively marching off a cliff.  

 

Weird right?  Psychology  is a bitch, for those that are unaware of it.....your either the puppet, or the puppeteer :blush: 


Edited by Teonanacatl38, 24 October 2016 - 09:13 AM.

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#6 JustAnEyedea

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Posted 24 October 2016 - 10:06 AM

Such enlightened minds in our community. I love it, and you. Yeah, you! Keep that shit up.
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#7 TVCasualty

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Posted 24 October 2016 - 02:38 PM

"Kids these days..." (said every generation in history about the generation of rugrats and ankle-biters that followed)

 

Granted, the inter-generational vitriol seems a bit more extreme and negative between those who fall into the arbitrarily-constructed demographic known as "Millennials" and those who fall into older arbitrarily-defined groups than what was exchanged between prior "generations."

 

That might be because the proverbial "generation gap" seems to be getting exponentially wider with each subsequent generation. And that's likely a function of the extremely rapid pace of technological development and the resulting sociological changes that such developments foster (along with the sheer size and complexity of modern society, which continues to increase exponentially and has enormous cultural implications unto itself).

 

So someone born in 1940 was not raised in a substantially-different world than someone born in 1950, or even 1960. But it was a different world to some degree, so while there was some friction between older and younger generations from those decades, it was relatively mild. James Dean became a shocking example of a "rebel" to older folks in the 50's merely by smoking cigarettes too provocatively, driving fast (or riding a motorcycle; the horror!), wearing a leather jacket and staying out after curfew.

 

In the 60's, smoking a joint or having a Playboy mag discovered hidden under the bed would shock the conscience of the prior generation. Nowadays those things just seem quaint, and even a 12-year old can matter-of-factly explain what "double anal" is, possibly to their same-sex married parents (while the precocious kid's two moms toke up their medicinal cannabis).

 

That's a scene that would've been virtually inconceivable to just about everyone who was born in 1970, yet here we are; two of those things are legal in most places and one of them (virtually unrestricted access of minors to all varieties of porn) is an arguably-disturbing consequence of that rapid pace of change that's not exactly legal (providing "obscene" material to minors probably never will be), though it's ubiquitous nonetheless.

 

But in an exponential world whose technological advancements have begun to go asymptotic, the world that someone born in 1970 grew up in was substantially different than the world someone born in 1980 grew up in. And "Millennials" are quite likely going to be even more baffled and confused by how their kids are and what they know by what age and all that (or don't know, as it were) than Millennials' parents are about Millennials.

 

We might get to the point where in order to have any relevance at all, catchy names for new "generations" will have to be coined every 5 years rather than every 20 (we're probably already at that point, frankly).

 

 

post-102948-0-74295800-1477337648.jpg

(from The Nietzsche Family Circus)

 

 

Up, up, and away!

technology-growth.jpg

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Edited by TVCasualty, 24 October 2016 - 02:39 PM.

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#8 August West

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Posted 24 October 2016 - 11:55 PM

I've had trouble breaking quotes up in order to individualize responses so I'm just going to post mine in this color within the quoted text.

 

Here's the real secret: collectivism is dangerous.

 

Some of 'you' are the things you've described. Some of 'you' aren't. That's how shit works. There's no such thing as 'millennials' - only a bunch of individuals that fall into some arbitrarily drawn category. Imo, it's no more useful to vouch for a bunch of strangers than it is to disparage them. 

 

I don't believe the descriptions in "What's Gaslighting", are very accurate.

 

 

 

Even though that's a totally valid point (even sibling family members aren't  all the same)...

En mass, different generations of people, have been trained and sculpted, at the same point of their developmental cycles....to the same set of variables.   That counts...in a big way. 

 

People are a product of their environment...media and culture homogenizes.   

 

Agreed. Just to be sure, though...you're agreeing with the sentiment that all millennials fit into a fairly homogenous spectrum of behavior? The context of this part of your response seems to indicate such.

We never look at individual birds, we look at patterns and behavior of the flock at large.

 

If our generation, in just one state...say Tennessee...was sent back in time to 1950 to start their development....and then was reunited with the rest of us concurrently, after a 30 yeard period....

 

We'd notice a big difference

 

The Tennessee hypothetical seems to go without saying and seems to fall short in addressing the point that groups are simply made up of individuals. Seems non sequitur. Further, comparing birds to humans is like comparing apples to oranges or...birds to humans. Other than inhabiting the same scientifically categorized Kingdom (created by humans, not birds, btw) humans and birds are vastly different. Interestingly, your example takes strides and strengthening your point (kudos) but imo, the premise is flawed. Maybe it's due to that conditioning you're pointing out that says, in affect that humans are just lumps of clay meant to be molded...?

 

'Old crotchety white people' is a very telling use of language for this person's point of view. There's an equally low socio-political-economic understand of the person described as such as there is in the person who just thinks you can raise the minimum wage or forgive student debt without a lot of chaos. Nuance can be a motherfucker where the naive are concerned.

 

I don't see a lot of thoughtful 'improvements' on offer. But I'm all ears.

 

 

I  realize "Old crotchety White people" doesn't sound very pleasing....But lets be honest....

 

White people own the world (I'm ready to discuss, if you think I'm generalizing.) & it's the older generations who hold many (and pass down)  of the limiting beliefs that keep  people divided  and struggling.    Almost every one of my friends grandparents (including my own) are racist as hell lol....if you really ask them.

 

That's  just "how they were raised"...They were a "Product of their environment" :rolleyes: 

 

Free and Critical  thinkers, of all ages/generations, willing to bushwack a new path...creatively & continuously.....

 

That's what we need.  

 

Unfortunately, it takes a lot of gumption to leave the heard....even if they're collectively marching off a cliff.  

 

Weird right?  Psychology  is a bitch, for those that are unaware of it.....your either the puppet, or the puppeteer :blush: 

 

You are generalizing but I have no issue with that. Generalizations are useful. However, 'pleasing', or otherwise, isn't the issue. It's the lack of nuance. The indication is that if crotchety old white man were replaced by x colored gender/race/etc things would be different. Would they? Racism isn't bound by color, funnily enough. The people most focused on race that I'm aware of, call themselves 'progressive'. This is an philosophical problem, not a color/age/gender/etc problem.

 

Psychology is a bitch for those that pay it no mind. I'm not sure about the puppet or puppeteer idea. Seems a bit more nuanced than that. Perhaps it's more of a spectrum than a dichotomy?

 

Oh well. Too much to drink for me...until next time.

 


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#9 Teonanacatl38

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Posted 25 October 2016 - 05:11 AM

 

I've had trouble breaking quotes up in order to individualize responses so I'm just going to post mine in this color within the quoted text.

 

*Good Idea

 

Even though that's a totally valid point (even sibling family members aren't  all the same)...

En mass, different generations of people, have been trained and sculpted, at the same point of their developmental cycles....to the same set of variables.   That counts...in a big way. 

 

People are a product of their environment...media and culture homogenizes.   

 

Agreed. Just to be sure, though...you're agreeing with the sentiment that all millennials fit into a fairly homogenous spectrum of behavior? The context of this part of your response seems to indicate such.

 

*Which part are you agreeing with?  ...and which part seems unclear?...Homogenizes, vs. Homogenized?

 

We never look at individual birds, we look at patterns and behavior of the flock at large.

 

If our generation, in just one state...say Tennessee...was sent back in time to 1950 to start their development....and then was reunited with the rest of us concurrently, after a 30 yeard period....

 

We'd notice a big difference

 

The Tennessee hypothetical seems to go without saying and seems to fall short in addressing the point that groups are simply made up of individuals. Seems non sequitur.

 

*How much of an Individual are you....really? You have the illusion of getting to make all sorts of important personal choices....Nike/Adidas, Clinton/Trump,  Regular/Premium etc....but in the end, your really just picking and choosing from a box of presets.  

 

This could take forever to spell/type out, but work with me here...

 

Everyone speaks a language (vocabulary), which is a matrix of all the notions/concepts of the given *culture* in whom it has arisen.   Language is the primary means  by which individuals may communicate information to others, or even themselves, as the medium of linear thought. 

Just since the boom in computer technology, our vocabulary  has expanded, hand in hand, to include more nuanced differentiation of conceptual matter, as it relates directly, or metaphorically, to those tech processes.....giving our communications (inner & outer) a greater range of mobility...and further shaping our collective cognitive structure, in ways that are unique to the cresting generation.

 

The very scaffolding of our perceptual matrix, was/is/& continues to be, handed to us  starting around age 3.  

 

What defines my individuality?     Is not every phenomenon repercussive in nature?

 

The individual, is still, largely shaped by the *culture*.

 

Further, comparing birds to humans is like comparing apples to oranges or...birds to humans. Other than inhabiting the same scientifically categorized Kingdom (created by humans, not birds, btw) humans and birds are vastly different.

 

We are a communal, *cultural* species.  We naturally cluster/heard/flock together (Family/village/city/Nation).  Like all other beasts of the land and sea, we  humans follow  internally similar patterns of behavior, on the whole.  Most species have a modus operandi.

 

Ourselves, being highly psychological creatures,  find much of our M.O. taking place at that subtle level....with it's repercussions emanating out externally, as a myriad of physical expressions (society) & mental projections (language).

 

Not so different.  We just understand "us" a little bit better than "them"

 

 

.Interestingly, your example takes strides and strengthening your point (kudos) but imo, the premise is flawed. Maybe it's due to that conditioning you're pointing out that says, in affect that humans are just lumps of clay meant to be molded...?

 

"...in affect that humans are just lumps of clay meant to be molded?".... "is a very telling use of language for this person's point of view" ...and one which was never asserted in the first  place.

 

 

'Old crotchety white people' is a very telling use of language for this person's point of view. There's an equally low socio-political-economic understand of the person described as such as there is in the person who just thinks you can raise the minimum wage or forgive student debt without a lot of chaos. Nuance can be a motherfucker where the naive are concerned.

 

I don't see a lot of thoughtful 'improvements' on offer. But I'm all ears.

 

 

I  realize "Old crotchety White people" doesn't sound very pleasing....But lets be honest....

 

White people own the world (I'm ready to discuss, if you think I'm generalizing.) & it's the older generations who hold many (and pass down)  of the limiting beliefs that keep  people divided  and struggling.    Almost every one of my friends grandparents (including my own) are racist as hell lol....if you really ask them.

 

That's  just "how they were raised"...They were a "Product of their environment" :rolleyes: 

 

Free and Critical  thinkers, of all ages/generations, willing to bushwack a new path...creatively & continuously.....

 

That's what we need.  

 

Unfortunately, it takes a lot of gumption to leave the heard....even if they're collectively marching off a cliff.  

 

Weird right?  Psychology  is a bitch, for those that are unaware of it.....your either the puppet, or the puppeteer :blush: 

 

You are generalizing

 

Am I?

 

but I have no issue with that. Generalizations are useful. However, 'pleasing', or otherwise, isn't the issue. It's the lack of nuance. The indication is that if crotchety old white man were replaced by x colored gender/race/etc things would be different.

 

That's an erroneous conclusion, of which no one set you up for an assist.  

Who's Generalizing?

 

Would they? Racism isn't bound by color, funnily enough.

 

Again....I never said it was.

 

The people most focused on race that I'm aware of, call themselves 'progressive'.

 

LOLOLOL....so true :rolleyes: 

 

This is an philosophical problem, not a color/age/gender/etc problem.

 

Now were speaking the same language :thumbs_up:

 

Psychology is a bitch for those that pay it no mind. I'm not sure about the puppet or puppeteer idea. Seems a bit more nuanced than that. Perhaps it's more of a spectrum than a dichotomy?

 

For sure...it's never just Black or White, This or That, 50/50  etc...

 

Oh well. Too much to drink for me...until next time.

 

Don't get the spins!! :ph34r: 

 


Edited by Teonanacatl38, 25 October 2016 - 05:42 AM.

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#10 PsyBearknot

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Posted 25 October 2016 - 03:22 PM

Every generation
turns around and says
"why don't you understand me"
Only to look forward and wonder
"what's wrong with you!"
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#11 pharmer

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Posted 25 October 2016 - 04:51 PM

sooner or later every generation grows up and stops bitching

 

seems these days it's later

 

let's hope it's not too late

 

because the pace of insanity is quickening

 

and the work necessary to reverse it may well outweigh the number of hours in the day

 

and any trivial and passing concerns about the label any of our generations have been assigned will be nil compared to the ugliness of what we all have to do just to survive

 

not a pretty assessment but one I'd bet is pretty accurate


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#12 Aminrcraoftm

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Posted 25 October 2016 - 07:23 PM

sooner or later every generation grows up and stops bitching gives in to the soul-crushing observation that they will not be able to bring about any changes they had wanted to see in the world

 

seems these days it's later

 

let's hope it's not too late early

 

How about the "crotchety old white men" just get out of the way, stop telling us that the shit world we live in is somehow either morally justified or actually not as bad as we think, and let change happen?


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#13 Alder Logs

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Posted 25 October 2016 - 10:26 PM

Be very careful, lest you wind up getting old someday.  

 

~a crotchety old white guy. 

 

I pretty much stay out of the way as it is.   Getting old is interesting in that the older you get, the more your peers die off, and you are left mostly alone with a bunch of young adults taking over stuff.   They know what they want, by their own reckoning.   They have an idea they know what's up by the same reckoning.   Who is going to tell them anything?  I am locally famous for helping people out, so I still see them when they need something.   I hear a lot of promises that go nowhere mostly.   I figure if they were to learn I was really in a jam, they might find some time, but they're generally about getting their shit in order.   Luckily, I have come to terms with aloneness.  I'm good that way.   After all of it, I still feel like a kid, even though there's this old beat to shit body.

 

Through most of my adult life I have sought out elders, found a few to hang out with, listened to them, served them.  I miss them now.   I really wonder if there are any young men who are anything like I was.   I know I was a weird one.   There are times when I could use some help, as I once helped my departed elder friends.  There was one who stands above the others in memory.  He would tell folks who asked his age, "I'm eight years older than the twentieth century."  He was the most generous man I ever met, though dirt poor.   He was an labor activist in his younger days, after his time in France in "the first war."  He was one of the people who got us all the eight hour day and the forty hour week. 

 

We can divide up humanity in a lot of ways.    The divisions are all false.


Edited by Alder Logs, 25 October 2016 - 10:52 PM.

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#14 pharmer

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Posted 26 October 2016 - 09:24 AM

 

sooner or later every generation grows up and stops bitching gives in to the soul-crushing observation that they will not be able to bring about any changes they had wanted to see in the world

 

seems these days it's later

 

let's hope it's not too late early

 

How about the "crotchety old white men" just get out of the way, stop telling us that the shit world we live in is somehow either morally justified or actually not as bad as we think, and let change happen?

 

You give crotchety old white men way too much credit. We're in control of nothing but our own lives, and that only in limited measure.

 

BUT

 

one of the reasons nobody is in any big hurry to suicide en-masse for the very strange gratification of younger persons is that said younger persons never offer solutions or a clearly laid out path to whatever fantasy dream world they happen to be proposing.  They appear to be content to live in their echo chambers repeating trash they haven't invented but think sounds important and empowering. Hah!

 

the world is a brutal place, not the downy safe space certain younger generations seem to think.

 

BUT this is nothing new. Every crotchety old man can still remember his "I'm going to change the world" days and looks back with a mixture or sadness at not doing better at said change, and wry irony in knowing that his noises were about as influential as farts in hurricanes. It's a right of passage like learning to walk, smoking a first cigarette, first lay, getting married, raising kids, and ultimately having this conversation.......same as his father, grandfather, great........

 

This is just one mans' opinion and should be weighed as such - our problem is not of some imagined and contrived inter-generation incompatibility - it's that this contrived incompatibility has been put upon us all by  psychopaths with a nefarious plan still unrevealed to cement control over the whole human race. THAT is the real problem. The rest of this noise is just slight of hand to keep us busy until the day the mousetrap slams shut.

 

And lucky crotchety old men will most likely have been feeding the worms for a few weeks before the wailing starts. Then the next generations can inherit the whirlwind.

 

The whirilwind is most definitely somebody's fault, everybodys' fault, nobodys' fault. It is what it is by a sum of every preceeding human activity

 

including yours

 

so pick your battles carefully

 

and if I may, consider picking your words as carefully. you may have to eat them some day.

 

as I have


Edited by pharmer, 26 October 2016 - 09:47 AM.

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#15 Juthro

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Posted 26 October 2016 - 01:10 PM

 

sooner or later every generation grows up and stops bitching gives in to the soul-crushing observation that they will not be able to bring about any changes they had wanted to see in the world
 
seems these days it's later
 
let's hope it's not too late early

 
How about the "crotchety old white men" just get out of the way, stop telling us that the shit world we live in is somehow either morally justified or actually not as bad as we think, and let change happen?

 


Spoken from the perspective of one who has not gained the sight of years.   I have a hard time generalizing entire generations.  For example, if I am not mistaken, Donald Trump, and Alder Logs are not too far apart in age.  But I have a hard time seeing much in the way of their similarities beyond that.

 

I refuse to accept responsibility for the actions of 'my generation', as adamantly as I refuse to lump you in as nothing more then part of yours.

 

Remember man, as you walk by,
as you are, so once was I.
As I am, so shall you be,
Remember man, that you must die.

                                 Anonymous grave marker.


Edited by Juthro, 26 October 2016 - 01:11 PM.

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#16 Alder Logs

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Posted 26 October 2016 - 01:56 PM

Geeziz Juth, I ain't as old as that geezer, Trump!   He's 70!


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#17 CatsAndBats

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Posted 26 October 2016 - 03:08 PM

 

sooner or later every generation grows up and stops bitching gives in to the soul-crushing observation that they will not be able to bring about any changes they had wanted to see in the world

 

seems these days it's later

 

let's hope it's not too late early

 

How about the "crotchety old white men" just get out of the way, stop telling us that the shit world we live in is somehow either morally justified or actually not as bad as we think, and let change happen?

 

 

[Direct Link]

 

 

Yeah, I have to echo what alder said. It'll happen one day, god willing, that you'll be "old". It's funny because I'm an old white guy and I'd like to think that I did and have changed the world, just by the sheer number of people that I've "opened the door" for, so to speak.

 

The problem with youth is that it's wasted on the young.

 

;)

 

 

That said, I actually LOVE the new "generation". Millennials are the first generation to be overwhelmingly accepting of LGBT, not inherently racist, and generally accepting and kind IME. They also seem to place a lot more worth on quality of life as opposed to just making a money grab, like my peers and the people before us.

 

So go get shit done kids! Let us know if y'all need any help growing entheogens.. :weedpoke:


Edited by catattack, 26 October 2016 - 03:14 PM.

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#18 pharmer

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Posted 26 October 2016 - 03:31 PM

I will also pile on the idea that the milllenials in general are inclusive to a fault

 

I like to get out and see new music acts and drag my bride along. The kids at the venues are invariably polite and are as willing as I am to engage each other and figure each other out. It cannot be the easiest thing to do to "include" geriatrics like us.


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#19 Ramble

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Posted 26 October 2016 - 07:32 PM

Being a millennial I find that the most frustrating aspect is (imho) we are very patient and considerate of the views and opinions expressed by older generations. I've noticed this a lot in my workplace (a bar) the millennial take so much shit from the older generations, but we always take it with a smile on our face and a certain degree of respect. I'm not saying all the older folks are assholes, and I'm not saying all millennial are decent human beings, I just think a little
Empathy from both sides would work wonders for the increasing generation gap.
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#20 TVCasualty

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Posted 27 October 2016 - 10:57 AM

 I'm not saying all the older folks are assholes, and I'm not saying all millennial are decent human beings, I just think a little
Empathy from both sides would work wonders for the increasing generation gap.

 

That's okay, you can say it because they are all assholes. And so are all of the "Millennials." And Generation Z (or whatever) will be a bunch of assholes, too.

 

 

 

"Assholiness" is a function of who you ask, and if you ask enough people about a particular individual you'll eventually find at least one person who thinks they're an asshole (or equivalent). Likewise, we're also all "real nice people," too.

 

I suppose one way to define empathy would be accepting that we're all ultimately just a bunch of agreeable assholes and cutting others some Slack when they're being more "asshole" and less "agreeable" in hopes of the Slack being reciprocated when we are being the asshole.

 

 

And by intentionally manifesting more empathic Slackfulness towards assholes (up to a point; no need to be masochistic about it), the ambient level of assholiness is thereby reduced. Or so I suspect, since a lot of assholiness (possibly even 50%) seems to be a reactionary response to the belief that someone else is being an asshole ("But... he started it!!")

 

Every individual who consciously breaks that negative-feedback loop nudges society-at-large a tiny step towards "agreeable" and an equal measure away from "a bunch of assholes." Add up all the tiny steps and you have a society that is either mostly-agreeable or mostly a bunch of assholes.

 

But that doesn't mean that everyone's "steps" have the same impact; Chaos Theory (my favorite Theory of them all) says that while most butterflies flappin' their proverbial wings are insignificant to the Grand Scheme of things, a few will manage to spin-up metaphorical hurricanes. And since there is no way to predict which butterfly's flapping will "go viral," it's probably best to always seek to maximize our agreeable flapping and minimize our assholy flapping.

 

 

Easier said than done, of course.


Edited by TVCasualty, 27 October 2016 - 10:58 AM.

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