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Everyone for Ourselves...


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#1 SteampunkScientist

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Posted 23 November 2016 - 09:59 PM

Some excellent bud... led to this thought I'd like to share.

We face a conundrum of a species that has partially evolved. There are those of us who have come to an awareness of consciousness and it's one-ness. How each of us are connected beings.

And there are those who want to control everything because they are not aware of this connectedness. They do not view other humans with the same value they place on their own lives.

So we are at a place where we are at an impasse seemingly. Those who stare at only biological improvements miss the empathic evolution of the human mind. They do not see they are missing it.

Evolution always requires a stimulus, and I believe that psychotropics are one of those stimulie.

They help us to see. Seeing the true I for what it is. All of us.

The question is, of course, how do we act knowing that all of us are "I"? That each of us could live together if we would but value each human with our own value.

Edited by SteampunkScientist, 23 November 2016 - 10:04 PM.

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#2 Pan1

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Posted 23 November 2016 - 10:25 PM

Sorry steam punk im in this life for me, myself and I. And that doesnt mean i dont fight the system where i can and put myself at risk. And as you all know that the drug war is used as an excuse  to promote racism, sexism and going after young people and people with long hair. So my shaking of the system does help other people besides my self in unjust wars but its just a by product.

 

I use to have beliefs similar to yours, until i realized that people claiming to have those beliefs where only out for there own personal gain.

 

I fight wars and shake the system because i can, because its fun, and because ive seen in my lifetime it does some good and things do change.

 

But this feeling that where all one has long since passed, even with the use of psychedelics.


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#3 SteampunkScientist

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Posted 23 November 2016 - 11:23 PM

Well, I understand your sentiment as while I recognize the above to be true, I don't live as if I believe it. Fall very short of it in fact. And not often motivated to be better in that area.

And please don't take what I wrote as any "call to action". It's not. I really don't care anymore about converting anyone to this viewpoint. It is a viewpoint only, one which I believe may be true. Is it? I believe it is. But I always try to have a healthy skepticism of any of my own beliefs.

Unfortunately some beliefs are so deeply held, so long a part of us we don't even recognize them as beliefs anymore. Those are the ones that can blind us.
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#4 Alder Logs

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Posted 23 November 2016 - 11:31 PM

Oneness will only be recognized within consciousness.  The perspective of the One is the same within all that is.  This perspective cannot/will not be found when anything is seen as other.  The Oneness is discovered in consciousness, only revealing Oneness upon Its discovery.    Upon discovery, the illusion of seeming separation has been seen through, and thereby, it is understood, even as in those expressions of consciousness where Oneness might remain undiscovered. (Which of course is a perspective we cannot truly know -- and in that, what can be truly known -- what would be the knower?)  

 

Here is where it can be tricky, something unreal and separate can still be believed within ourselves, and this idea can subtly arise as a seeming seeing that those not yet in this discovery are again other, and in an instant flip when we identify that other, we have again identified ourselves as other.    But, this is okay.   Once unity has been recognized, as it can be in cases through entheogen use, in many ways, one can realize one has always the option of the discovery, which is never not here.   If falls to the heart which seeks the truth of the One to lead us.  And while it leads, we are already It.  The seeker disappears, as it was illusion believed in too.


Edited by Alder Logs, 24 November 2016 - 12:09 AM.

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#5 SteampunkScientist

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Posted 23 November 2016 - 11:45 PM

What I have come to discover is that Chaos is as legitimate in the universe as is Order. That is the lesson of the yin-yang.

Hence the desire for one-ness is balanced by an equal quantity of separate-ness. The spiritual guru may preach for one-ness but there are other "gurus" who push separate-ness just as strongly.

This is flow of the Thought form that is everything that is. From chaos to order, in which new chaos's may be found. And yet within that Chaos, islands of order in an ever branching fractal.

Edited by SteampunkScientist, 23 November 2016 - 11:50 PM.

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#6 Alder Logs

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Posted 23 November 2016 - 11:47 PM

Will Oneness, desired, ever be?


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#7 SteampunkScientist

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Posted 23 November 2016 - 11:50 PM

Sure, if we choose it.

#8 Alder Logs

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Posted 23 November 2016 - 11:53 PM

Does not desire bring a seeming two, the desired and the desirer?  

 

If Oneness is the True, then the two, or the ten thousand things, are the illusion. 

 

 

"The world rests upon the bedrock of satya or truth. Asatya, meaning untruth, also means nonexistent, and satya or truth also means that which is. If untruth does not so much as exist, its victory is out of the question. And truth being that which is, can never be destroyed."

~M.K. Gandhi

 

 

"What you are looking for is what is looking.

~Saint Frances of Assisi

 

I bought a thirty inch tall statue of Frank just today.  I think I will put in on an island in our little pond.   

 

What's a guy to do when he's in love?


Edited by Alder Logs, 24 November 2016 - 12:05 AM.

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#9 Heirloom

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Posted 24 November 2016 - 11:28 AM

I have read and reread this thread. I like it , its stimulating and comforting at the same time.

I have thought of  "I" as Life - consciousness that shattered its self and we all have a piece of original " I " in us.

We are temples of this " I " that shattered its self and this is why we see the world as individuals- you - me.
Some  have knowledge of this some don't  none the less we are one.

One day the " I " will come together again.

  namaste





 


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#10 fungi2bwith

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Posted 24 November 2016 - 12:08 PM

I've come to know that we are all connected to a certain extent, but I also believe that our individuality is important also. If we did eventually evolve to some type of higher being, and we are going for oneness, then "hive think" or the borg come to mind....and I'm hoping I'm not around for that point in the future.  I enjoy my freedom of choice and my individual experience.


Edited by fungi2bwith, 24 November 2016 - 12:11 PM.

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#11 Alder Logs

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Posted 24 November 2016 - 12:22 PM

One day the " I " will come together again.

 

'Seemingly' is a very powerful word we can use.  One day the "I" will seemingly come together again.  All our fervent  belief in the illusion does not change what always is.  What was never apart cannot come together.   We are only dreaming it apart.   We are dreaming that our individuality is important.   This is all fine for the moment.  No blame in it.   It is the conditioning of growing up in this form.   I am comfortable not knowing why.   I stopped shaking my fist, demanding answers for my little organ of reason. 

 

==============================================

 

"If you are not awake to the true, everybody has mental health problems. [laughter] And worst is that they believe they don’t!

What would you call this, that you walk around believing you are somebody you are not,

trying to convince everyone you’re a better, or even best version of that delusion,

constantly fighting with people to defend ideas that you just make up?

When they are finally on board, you change your ideas altogether without making a single apology.
What would you call that other than 'nuts'?

The person we so take to be ourself doesn't actually exist, and never really existed. Can I really say such things to you?

It has all been imagined and kept up for a very long time.

I know everyone may not take to what I’m saying, and my words are not expected to be believed.

They are only an invitation to look, to inquire, to reflect, and to perhaps confirm.

No picture of you is true.  This should be such an enormous relief and release, that no version is complete,

no picture is true, no personality is perfect—even a spiritual one.  But who is ready to hear this?"


~ Mooji, November 23rd, 2016


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#12 Heirloom

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Posted 24 November 2016 - 12:37 PM

fungi2bwith there was the time I feared the Borg Hive. I wanted to be an individual with private thoughts.

Now I would enjoy to enter into the mind of another as I invite them into my mind so we understand.

I want us all to have freedom of choice and to have individual lives  but would it not be nice to understand another fully
why should we fear another being in our mind knowing everything?

 We need you to be around then to help keep balance , you will be there and come to realize you are the same as we are.


One day there maybe a cult  hooked together mind to mind  via computers


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#13 SteampunkScientist

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Posted 25 November 2016 - 09:16 PM

Alder said " What was never apart cannot come together. We are only dreaming it apart. We are dreaming that our individuality is important. "

If we are dreaming it Alder, then is that not the will of the single "I" to do so?

It wants to know itself from every possible viewpoint. From the atom to the universe, from you and me and every living consciousness that is or ever was, or ever will be within the illusion of time that it also created.

When you say "We" who is that?

Edited by SteampunkScientist, 25 November 2016 - 09:17 PM.

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#14 Alder Logs

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Posted 25 November 2016 - 10:48 PM

 

When you say "We" who is that?

Yes!


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#15 SteampunkScientist

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Posted 26 November 2016 - 09:41 PM

Alrighty, then... ;)

Getting the train back on its rails...

So how does evolving conscious state self exist with these seemingly endless contradictions within itself?

I suggest it cannot exist otherwise.

Edited by SteampunkScientist, 26 November 2016 - 09:46 PM.

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#16 Alder Logs

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Posted 27 November 2016 - 12:48 AM

What is this thing which is to evolve?  

 

What is seemingly anything except seeming?   If it were more than seeming, it would not be seeming.  It would be that which is.  

 

We are never going to nail Jello to a tree.   We don't have the equipment.    We might like the Tao to be told for us.  So which 'we' would this be?   Would it not be a we that we only imagine ourselves to be?    What happens to that imagined we when we see it as only that?  What is that seeing?  

 

Is there a no bullshit seeing that misses none of it, if we could for an instant stop being some something imagined, our minds' stories of what is, and who we are?   

 

It's all here when the figure-outer-er gives up its figuring out the Oneness only while still keeping its idea of identity.     

 

 

When you say "We" who is that?

 

Hold the question.   See how the answers will change in silence.  

 

Does seeing change?   Don't answer that. 



#17 Myc

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Posted 27 November 2016 - 10:37 AM

I begin to understand why these discussions seem so circular.

 

The Truth is self-evident and requires no proof. It just is. 

Words are an attempt at defining or describing the perceived "Truth" from one's given viewpoint.

The attempt at defining perfection (The Truth) with imperfect terms (words) inherently despoils the subject being described.

 

It's almost as if the very "description" of a subject defiles its perfection by imposing the limits of interpretation which are fundamentally biased. Once interpreted or described, a thing "is" (becomes static or "real") to the describer. Prior to that, is it?........or is it not?

The beliefs of a single lunatic are readily dismissed.

The beliefs of a society buying into the lunacy ...... gets interesting really quick. 


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#18 SteampunkScientist

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Posted 28 November 2016 - 11:46 AM

Excellent description Myc! I heartily agree... using words. :biggrin:

 

Alder...

 

There is a Zen parable, which you have probably heard, but is prescient within this discussion:  A novice monk declared to his Master "I get it now! Nothing Exists!  Whereupon the Master punches the novice monk in the nose and asks, "What hurts?".

 

So the seeming, and the seeing may perhaps be understood when the "figure-outer" finally shuts up, but nevertheless, my nose still hurts, to which you may add "Who is feeling it?"


Edited by SteampunkScientist, 28 November 2016 - 11:56 AM.


#19 Alder Logs

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Posted 28 November 2016 - 12:38 PM

One can say, "I have a nose," or, "I am a nose."  

 

Keep up the inquiry.   Who am I?

 

Who, what, has the nose?  

 

With any intimation of identity, ask, "am I that?"  

 

 

The discovery of truth is in the discernment of the false.
You can know what is not. What is - you can only be.
~Nisargadatta Maharaj

 

In the end, there is only being.  There has only ever been being.  Within the quiet of simply being, everything remains, even a punched nose.  What hurts?  

 

The body's nose will of course act accordingly.  

 

The person's nose might have been irreparably tweaked, and this will be the place of suffering. 


Edited by Alder Logs, 28 November 2016 - 12:41 PM.


#20 SteampunkScientist

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Posted 28 November 2016 - 06:40 PM

Yeah, but that doesn't change the pain does it? It's all esoteric as long as nose punching continues.

Edited by SteampunkScientist, 28 November 2016 - 06:40 PM.





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