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Everyone for Ourselves...


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#21 Alder Logs

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Posted 28 November 2016 - 07:13 PM

Okay. 



#22 Skywatcher

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Posted 28 November 2016 - 11:19 PM

I have been following this conversation with great interest, because I find myself  invested in both viewpoints. With the utmost respect Alder, I have to work hard to silence the internal dialogue for long enough to begin to glimpse (remember), the level of truth or one, (I), that you can so eloquently speak of. It is to me desirable, and I respect, and if I were to be honest, somewhat envy, your achievement I wish to emulate......................

At times I feel close.

 

But I also spend a good deal of my thinking exploring the thoughts and beliefs that SpS brings to the table, My understanding of this sense of oneness originally brought out goes way beyond only humanity.

 

I feel a oneness with all living beings. I believe in a "living" essence within all material, organic and not. To accept and coexist with non human entities such as elementals and Fae, beings of spirit without form, requires other forms of communication. Words are not enough, although there is power in words. A new Animist perspective.

 

I sometimes think that mankind has more "devolved", than evolved with the advances in technology. The ability and desire to see and understand at all levels of this existance, is a goal shared by a minority these days. Those who feel and see the "oneness" within this earth, and its many beings and beyond, are I believe those who will one day achieve a true evolution, in the form of an ascension.

 

If there is to be a true Borg type hivemind, I find it more likely that that would be an eventual construct of AI. I find I must separate this form of unity, from the idea I hold of the unity of life, the I, which I cannot pretend to understand, nor need to to accept this.

 

I don't usually participate in these conversations because I find it so difficult to state my thoughts, when so many of them are not more than remembered shards from alternate "sight", that only seems fully clear while in that state, and does not translate into the printed word of cyberspace well if at all to me.

 

post-126525-0-70575600-1480393338.jpg

 

sacredcircle.jpg


Edited by Skywatcher, 28 November 2016 - 11:23 PM.

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#23 Alder Logs

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Posted 29 November 2016 - 01:11 AM

Skye, stop working hard.  

 

I went through an experience just over two years ago, out of which, this non-meditater, by some undeserved grace, found an extended period of time having a totally quieted mind.  That was just a gift.  It didn't last, and the busy little thought generator started all back up on its own.   There is no special state to attain.   Watch all the states come and go.   That's all that is needed.  In the watching, all can be seen.   The trick is to not identify with any of it.  We are not the states, nor any commentary our minds might provide about them.   We all have our histories, our memories, but they needn't define us.   We can let them just be as they are, and nothing is lost in seeing we are not them.   Just ask any idea if you are that.   You might see you have the choice to identify or not.  

 

I have not achieved anything.  I have lost something.  It was something I didn't need, because it was never what was.   There is nothing to achieve, if it is the Truth that is what is wanted.   It is what we are.  It was there before the stories, and will be there when they are told for the last time.   So here I am, tossing words at it, hoping they convey what words cannot.  

 

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#24 SteampunkScientist

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Posted 30 November 2016 - 12:18 AM

That, Alder, was your best explanation of what I believe you are trying to convey that I've read so far.

And I get what you're saying, but I think you may have missed what I'm saying: that these "events" of the illusion of separate-ness and "seeming" exist. Yes they may be illusory, but they "are", if even as purely as just ideas.

And as such, they have been brought to life by the Seer of all, and are thus, important.

Edited by SteampunkScientist, 30 November 2016 - 12:18 AM.

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#25 Alder Logs

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Posted 30 November 2016 - 01:05 AM

The reason I have gone on at such length with the expression called SteampunkScientist is because you have written so much to show that I was not wasting time in our discourses.  It gave me a very nice buzz to be seeing that.   I hate to say you were getting it, because it's not an it, in that kind of way.    But, that's the words this time.   Anyway, why stop something that feels only good?  I just didn't want to be pushing the river, if that's what was happening.  I don't mind being the broken record, stuck in that old groove.   I thrive on the repetition, and I write as much for myself as anyone else, as my part in these expressions of the divine that we are each manifesting.   

 

I sure don't say the manifestations have no place.  They do.   It seems to be the game here in meat space.    Why not enjoy it all, eh?   The importance the bits and pieces of it all have is the importance we give to them.   They are certainly part of the whole multifaceted jewel that is life in these parts.   I go on about that identity thing because I have seen that once it has had its cover blown, in that it is seen how it constantly is trying to be the being, and hang it up like its sheepskin on the wall; once that gig is up, there is freedom from its tyranny.   The repetition is because identity doesn't go down without trying every trick in its many books-worths of knowledge.   But sometime, if it gets watched from that clear unattached seeing, you just get to laugh at it, and then, you will find you are traveling lighter. 

 

That is what I call being nothing.   Everything is still there in the big old world, but what is different is in the perspective.   The unattached nothingness carries joy and peace and love, without any needed conditions, and happiness for no reason.  

 

When that found me, I thought, man, this is some really good shit.    Here dude, try some of this shit:

 

 

gallery_131808_1351_15306.jpg


Edited by Alder Logs, 30 November 2016 - 01:19 AM.

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#26 ChimX

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Posted 30 November 2016 - 04:21 PM

"Everyone for Ourselves". What a great title. It can be read so many ways, I had a hard time getting my head around it.

There's an attached fear that comes with the idea of 'hive mind'. I was born in the States where this concept is truly demonized to the fullest extent. We think of "Invasion of the Body Snatchers", communism and socialism when faced with the idea of 'oneness'. Capitalism and western philosophy have always pumped and prized individuality, self reliance, and separateness, and to entertain thoughts to the contrary is dangerous and un-American. These ideals have been such a fundamental part of our history that it's difficult to approach the subject from an unbiased stance. Even our great civil war revolved around this very topic: Federal Law vs. self governing independent States. Ironically, independence lost that one.

Oneness, in a sense, is death. Especially to the western mind. It's as if our uniqueness and individuality is our definition. How can I be if I am not me? It's almost as if in losing our uniqueness, we would cease to exist.

But, in essence, we're all just tiny lights of observation. We're born as sensory receptors of sight, sound, taste, touch and smell. Everything else is learned. All 7 billion of us. None of us were born Einstein or Tesla. At one point we were all this tiny dot of observation. While we may feel a thousand light years away from that moment of birth and the first instance of sensory bombardment, it's forever there, buried deep within all of us.

In a sense we are truly all one, no matter how far we run from the starting line, no matter how hard we try to convince ourselves otherwise. We paint ourselves with the medals of our victories and tragedies, accomplishments and failures, until the reflection in the mirror is an enigma to others and a fiction to ourselves.

It's the individualizing ritual of billions which, in the end, stands as a testament to our inescapable oneness.

(I just re-read this and realized how bat shit crazy I sound. Hope I haven't offended anyone. If I did offend anyone, I was just kidding. I think and feel exactly the 'same' as you. We are like 'one'.)

-ChimX

Edited by ChimX, 30 November 2016 - 04:25 PM.

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#27 SteampunkScientist

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Posted 30 November 2016 - 05:45 PM

My apologies Alder, I see that you see, si? Conceptually I get your point and I suppose your reasoning for constantly pointing to the illusion as not many are...

And I suppose if we can pull "ourselves" (ha ha) away from the painting we have our faces pressed too, we might just get a better idea of the whole painting, and see that it is only a painting.

And we have the paint and the brush...
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#28 Alder Logs

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Posted 30 November 2016 - 09:06 PM

Thank you.  An no apologies necessary, or warranted. 

 

I think you just hit upon what Mooji calls, "the ever-changing self portrait."  


Edited by Alder Logs, 30 November 2016 - 09:10 PM.

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#29 SteampunkScientist

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Posted 30 November 2016 - 10:38 PM

Makes you wonder if the whole point of existence...if there is a point, is to finally see this.

Sorta like this picture...

burmese-march.jpg

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Edited by SteampunkScientist, 30 November 2016 - 10:43 PM.

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#30 Arathu

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Posted 07 January 2017 - 10:17 AM

Skye, stop working hard.  

 

I went through an experience just over two years ago, out of which, this non-meditater, by some undeserved grace, found an extended period of time having a totally quieted mind.  That was just a gift.  It didn't last, and the busy little thought generator started all back up on its own.   There is no special state to attain.   Watch all the states come and go.   That's all that is needed.  In the watching, all can be seen.   The trick is to not identify with any of it.  We are not the states, nor any commentary our minds might provide about them.   We all have our histories, our memories, but they needn't define us.   We can let them just be as they are, and nothing is lost in seeing we are not them.   Just ask any idea if you are that.   You might see you have the choice to identify or not.  

 

I have not achieved anything.  I have lost something.  It was something I didn't need, because it was never what was.   There is nothing to achieve, if it is the Truth that is what is wanted.   It is what we are.  It was there before the stories, and will be there when they are told for the last time.   So here I am, tossing words at it, hoping they convey what words cannot.  

 

[Direct Link]

 

 

 

Beautifully stated! Like leaves floating along in the current of the stream.......the Watcher observes the appearance and disappearance of various leaves and matter being carried along.................And "I" ask who is watching the watcher.............it never goes silent, sometimes I'm able to not grasp a hold of any one item.  


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