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Pizzagate - Precedents - and Where Will It Lead?

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#41 Cybilopsin

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Posted 08 January 2017 - 12:06 AM

The allegations about Comet Ping Pong are bullshit.

Comet Ping Pong is a place hippies and freaks should be down with; good food, creative design/aesthetic, fun games, designed with multigenerational interaction.

Yeah I saw the instagram account. If you're familiar with queer culture in DC and that particular brand of humor and in-group sociality there's really nothing odd about it. A few dumb tasteless comments, yeah, but well within the predictable range of hipper-than-thou artsy-queer east coast culture humor.


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#42 curandZero

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Posted 08 January 2017 - 07:35 AM

People would rather believe in secret child sex rings run by big shots in the government.  Got a lie you want to spread around?  Attach "satanism" and "child abuse" to it and suddenly it becomes more believable.


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#43 Alder Logs

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Posted 08 January 2017 - 08:28 AM

 

Got a lie you want to spread around?

 

Perhaps you should think about not being so insulting.  You were in a similarly general talking down tone in the PM you sent me (regarding the Russian hack thread, but referencing this topic as well).  You are not an authority just because the New York Times prints the version you approve of.  These threads were put here on the grounds that people would keep the conversations respectful.   I started this thread, and in the title I put the word, "Precedents," because there are several such precedents.  Whether I got "totally scammed" (as you put it in the PM) on this particular iteration of the repeated theme of child sexual abuse perpetrated by the powerful, remains to be seen, disproved, or covered up. 

 

I asked you to go ahead and post what you sent me in the PM, "as is."   If you think it's a argument, make it publicly in this thread, or the hacking thread.  Or tell me to go ahead and post what you sent me (I have it saved), they were your words, in your tone, and should be good enough to go public, yes?

 

As someone who has done some amount of research into government, class, and corporate misdeeds, to be dismissed as a conspiracy theorist, when the MSM makes that argument and it is picked up (because propaganda works) will never sit well.   Granted, very little has ever changed because of any work I have done, but then, is that a reason to not do it?  I may not work so hard at it in my old age, but a spoonful of New York Times (the people who brought us the Iraq War) isn't going to make it go down any easier.


Edited by Alder Logs, 08 January 2017 - 09:12 AM.

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#44 dead head jed

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Posted 08 January 2017 - 09:40 AM

Well a guy with a rifle had the run of the place for 2 hours and couldn't turn up a single thing

 

Personally i think when someone gets acussed of running a child sex ring the burden of proof falls on the accuser.

So i ask...when is the proof...?

Isn't this exactly how conspiracy thoriest workn well you can't disprove it so it has to be true?

Hippie never stood for that argument and I can't for the life of me believe that it is beeing allowed to stand now.



#45 curandZero

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Posted 08 January 2017 - 10:14 AM

 

Perhaps you should think about not being so insulting.

Alder Logs, I have no intention of pursuing an argument with you on a message board.

 

Unless you personally concocted the "Pizzagate" fantasy I have no reason to brand you a liar.  I wasn't insulting you — I was referring to the practice of making up the fake stories in the first place.  Nor am I posing as any sort of "authority". 

 

 

(the people who brought us the Iraq War)

 

The New York Times was not a sponsor of the Iraq war, or any other war.  They had one particular reporter (Judith Miller) who basically repeated everything that Ahmed Chalabi told her.  It was an embarrassment to the Times and she eventually lost her job.  But to just assume that everything printed in the Times is untrue or suspect because of stories written over a dozen years ago by one discredited reporter is going too far.  It's the same when Trump keeps saying that the CIA can't be believed because George Tenet said Saddam's WMD program was a "slam dunk"  — unless he knows that the same agents were in charge of the WMD investigations and the Russian hacking case it doesn't make sense to just assume everything they say is inaccurate.

 

It's good that you do research into government, class, and corporate misdeeds.  I have noticed though, when doing my own research, that it's very easy to find well-produced articles and videos which come across as very convincing — especially when the confirm things I already believe in.  But in many instances it's really difficult to check the facts.  Often the same statements are found on several different sites but never really sourced properly, so you never know when you're getting scammed.  The fact that there are people out there churning out misinformation on a daily basis and posing as "independent" journalists doesn't make the search for truth any easier.



#46 Alder Logs

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Posted 08 January 2017 - 11:04 AM

As in post number ten of this thread, and number 25 in the Informations Wars thread, I cautioned about this case being a play to limit alternative reporting under the meme of "fake news."  That ploy seems to be winning the day, and it's the same MSM who will get to do the sniff tests. 

 

Let us not lead with the insinuation of lies.  That is not how a healthy discussion works.   There is a very strong possibility that rich and powerful people do really terrible things, and usually get away with it, because they are rich and powerful.   Reporters often die when they get too close.   This seems to have just happened again, when a reporter started reopening the Aquino/Presidio Case.   We can file that under, "coincidence theory," and it is a coincidence that it's happened so often.    I report that here as only a coincidence.  Should it be ignored, or put into the record?


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#47 curandZero

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Posted 08 January 2017 - 11:37 AM

 

I cautioned about this case being a play to limit alternative reporting under the meme of "fake news."

There's a huge difference between conducting an independent investigation and deliberately concocting misinformation.  Anyone who complies with minimal standards of journalism can easily defend himself against an accusation of filing a fake news story.

 

...and it's the same MSM who will get to do the sniff tests.

Who, or what,  is "MSM"?



#48 August West

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Posted 08 January 2017 - 11:45 AM

People would rather believe in secret child sex rings run by big shots in the government. 

Are you suggesting there is no credible evidence of pedophilia amongst the rich and powerful - government or otherwise?

 

 

Do you demand the same burden of proof from the "mainstream media"? They've offered no evidence whatsoever of a "Russian hack" (though it's been extremely effective at obfuscating the content of those "hacks"). "CIA sources say" is not a source at all.


Edited by August West, 08 January 2017 - 11:45 AM.


#49 curandZero

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Posted 08 January 2017 - 12:06 PM

No.

 

Yes.



#50 hallucinogeneti

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Posted 08 January 2017 - 03:13 PM

I've been hearing about this story for a while and people seem very dismissive of it, but most have not put in any research. So I looked into it.

It's hard to say exactly what's happening but all signs I can see point to something insidious.

 

Not proof, but plenty of evidence:

 

- The F.B.I. has unclassified documents that clearly show besta pizzas logo to be a symbol for pedophile rings.

 

- Child porn rings on 4chan have used pizza and cheese as code words for years.

 

- Pizza joints have been busted before for being human trafficking hubs

 

- The Jon Podesta emails are full of very odd references to cheese and pizza that make no sense.

 

- Clintons have extensive connections to Jeffrey Epstein who has been convicted of 3rd degree sexual abuse and is obviously a child sex trafficker.

 

- Tony Podestas favorite artist routinely paints scenes of pedophilia and has two of her paintings prominently displayed in his house.

 

- comet ping pong has had some very strange artwork displayed at all ages shows.

 

this website has everything sourced and chronicled just spend some time scrolling.

It's also worth nothing that this is all suddenly considered "fake" news which seems to be just a term conjured up to control what you believe. Real news outlets like RT MSNBC and CNN have all covered bits and pieces of this story before it was called pizza gate, but now facebook will be able to certify what is real or fake from now on.

 

it's not proof but given the u.k. pedo shit and the catholic church it's really not a far leap.

 

sad as that is....



#51 curandZero

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Posted 09 January 2017 - 12:38 PM

How soon before we see the indictments and convictions?



#52 Cybilopsin

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Posted 09 January 2017 - 04:40 PM

 

- comet ping pong has had some very strange artwork displayed at all ages shows.

 

To me this gets at the heart of what is so fucked-up about the pizzagaters.

They see some "strange art" that scares them, something with blood in it maybe, satanist imagery, weird music, punk bands.

"Why would anyone make art so disturbing?"
Its hysterical, and its anti-art.


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#53 August West

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Posted 09 January 2017 - 07:57 PM

How soon before we see the indictments and convictions?

Yea, because everyone knows guilty people are always indicted and convicted...


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#54 SteampunkScientist

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Posted 10 January 2017 - 12:13 AM

I sense a tension on this thread that is getting close to unseemly, and I hope it doesn't go into a shouting match.

I believe that we ought to respect "innocent until proven guilty" but also that evidence of wrongdoing ought not be dismissed.

Things do get complicated when disinformation is being pumped out alongside the truth. We need to be cognizant of that, because that is something we know is happening.

Here is a question: Do we have knowledge of a child who was abused? If we do, what do we know? Where does it lead?

Let us all take a deep breath here.
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#55 August West

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Posted 10 January 2017 - 02:15 AM

I don't necessarily share your concern. I see a little tension here and there but, most of the participants have historically been pretty level-headed. I see a little struggle in that the relative newcomers to the thread seem to be riding an idea that the initial thread posting has mostly moved beyond - that being whether the initial allegations of "pizzagate", whatever they may be, have little basis in reality. Maybe. But the thread (so to speak), mostly seems to have acknowledged and moved beyond this question - into, is there another reason for this story? How, if at all, does it fit into the "fake news" meme going around?

 

I do see your concern in one respect, If anything, the newest participants in the thread seem to highlight at least one thing...that this story has been successful in pushing the ever popular "divide and conquer" narrative. With the newly minted teams battling it out over whether you're on the "fake news" team or the "status quo" team.

 

Okay, that's enough ethanol for me, for now


Edited by August West, 10 January 2017 - 02:31 AM.

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#56 Sidestreet

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Posted 10 January 2017 - 06:13 AM

Aug, I think you're right that the thread was always about more than the issue of whether Pizzagate is a thing that is actually happening, but for those who are still interested:

 

Here are the John Podesta e-mails on the Wikileaks site, cross-referenced with the search term "pizza".  There aren't all that many, so anyone who's interested should be able to get through them using CTRL+F searches fairly quickly:

 

https://wikileaks.or...1

 

As for the "fake news" issue I agree that it could be used as a tool for controlling narratives, but I feel that it originated out of obvious (you would think) hoaxes coming from sites like ABCNews.com.co.

 

 

Along with the Obama pledge ban hoax, other fake news about US politics that hit big on Facebook this year included “Pope Francis Shocks World, Endorses Donald Trump for President, Releases Statement,” “Trump Offering Free One-Way Tickets to Africa & Mexico for Those Who Wanna Leave America,” “ISIS Leader Calls for American Muslim Voters to Support Hillary Clinton,” and “FBI Agent Suspected in Hillary Email Leaks Found Dead in Apparent Murder-Suicide.”

https://www.buzzfeed...ea6#.ovxlyd26Ry

 

 

We know that government and industry strive mightily (and successfully) to control narratives and worldviews.  I just think that the recent "fake news"  meme began with people eating up what should have been obvious bullshit regarding the election.  Then it morphed as people took it up to blast their most-hated virtual worldview pipelines (news media outlets).  I don't get the sense that it was created from whole cloth with manipulative intent, though it seems quite possible that the underlying stories were.  The election was the catalyst imo. 


Edited by Sidestreet, 10 January 2017 - 06:20 AM.

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#57 Alder Logs

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Posted 10 January 2017 - 10:10 AM

Interesting to see what I have missed by avoiding Facebook and not having TV. 


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#58 August West

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Posted 10 January 2017 - 11:32 AM

We know that government and industry strive mightily (and successfully) to control narratives and worldviews.  I just think that the recent "fake news"  meme began with people eating up what should have been obvious bullshit regarding the election.  Then it morphed as people took it up to blast their most-hated virtual worldview pipelines (news media outlets).  I don't get the sense that it was created from whole cloth with manipulative intent, though it seems quite possible that the underlying stories were.  The election was the catalyst imo. 

I don't necessarily disagree. I think your view is more typically how the world works.

 

"Never let a good crisis go to waste" - Winston Churchill...or Rahm Emanuel...or....whoever



#59 TVCasualty

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Posted 10 January 2017 - 05:37 PM

Interesting to see what I have missed by avoiding Facebook and not having TV. 

 

Not a damned thing.

 

Well, except this gem:

 

e99b7208d62715ffe5c76c60af722c8d8e8ecb6e

 

0a9ade23a52b764f1a0248ec9df8efac8e7b1ca7

 

 

 

"Holy shit" indeed...


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#60 SteampunkScientist

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Posted 10 January 2017 - 06:10 PM

I heard about this doctor that set up a community group with patients and other doctors. People pay in a small amount, and he uses his buying power to get super discounts on drugs and minor surgery, care, etc. Everyone wins. Then they buy inexpensive (high deductible) catastrophic insurance for major things. It's saving seniors, and lower income folks a lot of money. Why couldn't we set up little groups like that all over?
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