47 replies to this topic

[SteampunkScientist]

We need to define a few terms - I am afraid the word "Capitalism" has gotten a pretty bad rap as of late and I wish there was a new word, perhaps "Entrepreneurial" - I'm not sure...

 

The fact is, the mom & pop corner grocery store where "Mom" and "Pop" are two people in the community who are providing a needed service and goods in exchange for money so that they can live is capitalism.  Does anyone see a problem with that? This has a particular meaning to me because my parents were mom & pop, and I grew up working in that store.

 

No, the problem stems from the cancerous, uninhibited, and politically modified version of capitalism we see all over the world today - where bankers, lawyers, politicians, and power-brokers have turned it into some sort of monster.  A monster that is given "rights", "privileges", and is actually listed as "a person" (corporations) to protect those who engage in it.  This layer of "protection" is the problem.

 

In real capitalism, mom & pop bear the brunt of bad financial decisions.  Not so in "crony-capitaism" where, if the CEO makes a terrible decision, they get a "golden parachute" of millions in bonuses, instead of being kicked out the door and thrown into the garbage filled mud-puddle out behind the building as they should.

 

Socialism and it's evil twin brother Communism makes the state the "Corporation" and is just as rabidly wicked, if not more so than the fascist mix of politics and aberrant capitalism we have in the US.  All of these systems grow like cancer, and they all steal the vital essence from those who are on the "outside".   Socialism and Communism do it at the point of a gun, while crony capitalism simply takes what is yours through incessant taxes, fees, and driving out the mom & pop establishments as they replace everything with mega-big-box-supercenters, and online monopolies.  When these businesses start using their power and influence to change such things as the free flow of information, shape the news, and use what amounts to surveillance techniques to target advertising in a manner close to hypnotic suggestion....well, Huston, we have a problem.

 

If there is some exchange say, a little bud for a little sacrament (and the fact is they are both sacraments) I would think there is no issue there - but that is a personal and spiritual thing that has to be within the persons doing the exchange.  And in fact that that is probably true with all exchanges - if done at a level of personal mindfulness between the parties.  But when the whole focus becomes the exchange, and those who control the process use power manipulation to change structures in society to enable them to dominate an exchange environment, then we start seeing the shenanigans we observe all around us now.

 

Ok... rant over.

[Hash_Man]

Let's back up away from definition of terms but I'd like to sugest that in this country we're geared to make our hobbies or intrest a way to make a living, I've been victim of this, oh there is nothing wrong with this it's just that many people feel more servient and dedicated than to capitalize on others needs utilizing a skill of an intrest that borderlines being a beleive system..

Aside from mushrooms or weed I'd like to use a fine musician as an example. Where he or she sacrifices life choices to their art and conciders monetary gain secondary to serving the art of the music, or better yet 'serving music itself.'

Edited by Hash_Man, 29 December 2016 - 10:43 AM.

[Alder Logs]

Read, The Lorax, by Dr. Seuss. 

 

Mom and pop were once the Waltons.  They liked coming out well ahead on each transaction, taking all the market would bear.  That game is capitalism. 

 

What was the Lorax?
And why was it there?
And why was it lifted and taken somewhere
from the far end of town where the Grickle-grass grows?
The old Once-ler still lives there.
Ask him. He knows.

Edited by Alder Logs, 29 December 2016 - 12:10 PM.

[SteampunkScientist]

I'm not sure which "Waltons" you mean Alder... John Walton? or Sam Walton?

 

I'm going to assume you meant Sam and Family.  Yup, he started a tiny little store that eventually became Wal-Mart.  My dad started a tiny little store that is still a rather modest affair by today's standards, but it still serves the area he started it in and he was able to feed a family of seven, send us through school, and now lives comfortably and is able to travel some with my mom.  Till the day he sold that store more than 40 years after he started it, he still carried bags out for customers himself...

 

I also do not think the The Lorax captures what capitalism is, but what it can turn into when we are not mindful of what we are doing.  The "Once-Ler" gets his name from only using things Once!!! He chops down the Truffula trees and never replants, he chops them all down without regard to anything except getting "BIGGER".  Does that happen today? Of course.  Does capitalism always lead to this result?

 

No. It does not.

 

It is, and always has been what is in us, what we do with our freedom.

 

"Do what thou wilt is the whole of the Law.  Love is the Law, Love under Will" It's simple really, we must think about our actions, for while we are free to do what we want, our freedom is only insofar as we do not abrogate the right of anyone else to do the same.

 

Capitalism is a tool, and like any other tool it can be used to build good things, or it can be used as a weapon.  We are the deciders.

[fungi2bwith]

      If you put time, effort, and cost of supplies into something, you should at least break even in the end.....I don't seem to be able to spend money without it being on something I can make money off of......meaning everything I buy is an investment, and I'm hoping for appreciation of value, or to be able to produce goods with said bought supplies to sell and make profit or break even and have something for personal use......This applies to anything I do....I make soap....so let's say that's what I'm talking about....

 

I could continue to buy 100$ worth of soap supplies every 3 months and just give the product away, and I'm out 400$ for the year.....or I could sell my soap at a lower cost than the store, break even, and have enough soap to not have to buy any myself, still saving/making money from not having to buy soap.

 

Basically, the gist of it, I produce things that I want, but don't want to spend money on, so I sell the excess to break even, and I still get my shares plus save money.....

 

 

Back to the bust part of this thread......I feel that if those guys had put as much time and effort into a micro-green company as they did that mushroom factory(basically the same setup, take away the tubs and add trays and T5 lighting), they could have made just as much money without the hassle of being busted......

Edited by fungi2bwith, 29 December 2016 - 02:56 PM.

[Alder Logs]

To me, what capitalism has come to in this age, when it has even become mistaken for a system of government and a political philosophy, is the widespread lens through which everything has been assigned its value as measured in the tokens of exchange.   This has a particularly cancerous effect on anything which can find such a value, either in its being, or even its elimination.    Units of exchange are not likely to go away any time soon, but what will it take for the blinding to cease?   The so-called capitalists rail against regulation in their markets... well?  So, they point to mom and pop, cry crocodile tears, bribe whoever needs bribing, and it's business as usual, as they choke mom and pop to death.  

 

Ever since I have been on this site I have advocated for worker owned companies.  In them I see a much better chance for human values to be paramount, surpassing the single value of acquisition of tokens and markets. 

 

I'm sitting here with my brand new T-shirt on.   I got the last one they had, and it's now out of print.   It features a broken shackle. 

 

 

 

 

Edited by Alder Logs, 29 December 2016 - 03:54 PM.

[OysterFarmer]

Although I think the over all goal is to respect them.  It would in theory be possible to sell them as long as its done with respect.  You'd be hard pressed to find any shaman in world history that worked for free.  Although of course you can reserve the right to give them to whomever you want.  I often carry some in my back pack and try to give them out to complete strangers that seem deserving.

[TVCasualty]

FWIW, if it wasn't for people being willing to grow and sell them, I would not have been able to acquire my first dose back when I did. And that was a very important moment in my life since I credit the trip I experienced from that first bag with saving my life (literally). And by extension, that means I credit the anonymous for-profit grower I never met with saving my life, too (and kick-starting my new life on the path I've been on ever since). And that would still be the case even if the grower was a member of the Russian mafia or whatever.

 

 

We no longer have the luxury of time (such as the traditional decades-long apprenticeship for old-school "shamans") as far as promoting the consciousness necessary to prevent our eventual extinction due to our own hubris is concerned (the collapse of our unsustainable civilization is probably a foregone conclusion at this point, though). I've never gotten the impression that psychedelics (of any type) "don't like" to be sold, or for that matter that they have any stance on commercial enterprises one way or the other at all.

 

I've gotten the very distinct impression, however, that they do have a strong 'stance' (as it were) when it comes to using them for ulterior motives or nefarious purposes (e.g. cult-like manipulation, intentionally mind-fucking someone MK-ULTRA style, etc.), but a straightforward cash-for-fungi (or LSD, or mescaline, or DMT, or Ayahuasca, etc.) transaction is not an example of such. Retail sales of ostensibly 'sacred' molecules are merely an incidental -and risky- necessity of the world we're stuck living in at the moment and besides, it's not the molecules themselves that are 'sacred' (IMO anyway) it's the experiences and awareness they bring that are.

 

So if someone decides to sell 'em, all I have to say is "Whatever; just don't get caught!"

 

 

 

Still, I find it interesting that the growers who got busted had such a clean, well-designed fruiting system but were still using glass mason jars to produce spawn (apparently). That keeps them at the "hobbyist" level IMO (very avid hobbyists to be sure, but not quite "professional" yet).

[oneeye1]

Thank the pylicibin gods i can buy them legally in holland
Id suffer a muserable existance without them

[Heirloom]

The first LSD I got was free I was 17 and in the US Army . The first mushrooms I got cost me and I'm ok with that, they were a treasure. I used to buy LSD and shared with friends as they did with me.

I understand people wanting to recover costs of production.

Selling carries risks , you are helping people but their are people who will sell you. So understand the risks involved.
 

[OysterFarmer]

Thank the pylicibin gods i can buy them legally in holland
Id suffer a muserable existance without them

Is it still just truffles or did they re legalize the shrooms?

[OysterFarmer]

FWIW, if it wasn't for people being willing to grow and sell them, I would not have been able to acquire my first dose back when I did. And that was a very important moment in my life since I credit the trip I experienced from that first bag with saving my life (literally). And by extension, that means I credit the anonymous for-profit grower I never met with saving my life, too (and kick-starting my new life on the path I've been on ever since). And that would still be the case even if the grower was a member of the Russian mafia or whatever.

 

 

We no longer have the luxury of time (such as the traditional decades-long apprenticeship for old-school "shamans") as far as promoting the consciousness necessary to prevent our eventual extinction due to our own hubris is concerned (the collapse of our unsustainable civilization is probably a foregone conclusion at this point, though). I've never gotten the impression that psychedelics (of any type) "don't like" to be sold, or for that matter that they have any stance on commercial enterprises one way or the other at all.

 

I've gotten the very distinct impression, however, that they do have a strong 'stance' (as it were) when it comes to using them for ulterior motives or nefarious purposes (e.g. cult-like manipulation, intentionally mind-fucking someone MK-ULTRA style, etc.), but a straightforward cash-for-fungi (or LSD, or mescaline, or DMT, or Ayahuasca, etc.) transaction is not an example of such. Retail sales of ostensibly 'sacred' molecules are merely an incidental -and risky- necessity of the world we're stuck living in at the moment and besides, it's not the molecules themselves that are 'sacred' (IMO anyway) it's the experiences and awareness they bring that are.

 

So if someone decides to sell 'em, all I have to say is "Whatever; just don't get caught!"

 

 

 

Still, I find it interesting that the growers who got busted had such a clean, well-designed fruiting system but were still using glass mason jars to produce spawn (apparently). That keeps them at the "hobbyist" level IMO (very avid hobbyists to be sure, but not quite "professional" yet).

 

Well said.  I think a big part of why the sixties fell apart was the whole everything should be freee maaan attitude. 

[oneeye1]

Thank the pylicibin gods i can buy them legally in holland
Id suffer a muserable existance without them

Is it still just truffles or did they re legalize the shrooms?

Truffles but they do the job till i get my sorry ass into shape and try and grow

[orangutan]

It's not black and white.  If you see someone exploiting humans, the earth, and sacred molecules for personal gain above everything else, you will know it.

 

This reminds me of the phrase that someone said once, "I know it when I see it"

 

If someone has the opportunity and the inclination to make a living providing sacred experiences, should they turn it down and go work at the Carrier plant, or selling health insurance for Aetna?  

 

Most money is dirty.  Whatever job you have to do to survive..  If you get paid through a corporation, they are probably exploiting others so that you can have that pittance of a direct deposit.  If you are a state or federal employee (or on social security benefits) you can thank your paycheck to the ruthless practices that your nation has exerted on the planet.

 

When you consider where your money really comes from, it gives you a different take on exchanging money for sacred molecules.

Edited by orangutan, 07 January 2017 - 04:56 PM.

[orangutan]

There is also a difference between the artisan that creates value with his own hands and the merchant that takes things from an artisan and adds value to it by merely changing hands with it.

[Alder Logs]

Maybe I got that message from the little helpers because I did not need to make money that way.   I had very little money, but I certainly wasn't starving or anything.  If I had a grow operation, it would be a different case, maybe.  But all I did was crawl around in pastures, ducking behind bull rushes when anyone drove by, risking getting caught with Class 1 narcotics.    I could rationalize that somehow I deserved to be paid for the risk.  But, they are called, "magic mushrooms," yes?  Maybe there was magic at work in the hunting, finding, picking, sharing, and journeying, for all whom they reached.   I stopped eating them a few years ago.  This year I saw almost none, even in places where they were once plentiful.   The magic might still be at work.  I don't need any, and I don't find any.  I always look, as it's the old program, but that finder is no longer part of identity.   I stopped being something, for just being. 

[SteampunkScientist]

I've seen the mushrooms you do grow Alder... If you want em, your a master grower! Ha ha!

[Alder Logs]

I walked up on a little patch of cyans about a dozen years ago.  Two years after that, I picked 30 pounds there.  This year, there were ten mushrooms.  I didn't pick them. One year in my pasture crawling days, I picked ten pounds of liberty caps.  Most all of them were given away, except what I ate, of course.

Edited by Alder Logs, 07 January 2017 - 06:46 PM.

[SteampunkScientist]

Ten pounds of liberty caps. Holy fucking shit... Your fingers probably absorbed enough Pslilly to get you to cloud nine.. them things are tiny!

[Alder Logs]

 

Ten pounds of liberty caps. Holy fucking shit...

That's about what I thought too.  That was a very wet fall.  I was soaked most of the time.

 

 

I took the ten pounds as ten dry ounces to the LA burbs and shared them with a bunch of creative city friends.  We made a pot of tea for a weekly artists' party, held every Monday night.   That was a fun few months. 

Edited by Alder Logs, 07 January 2017 - 06:56 PM.