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The "Likes" System / Reputation


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Poll: Likes / Reputation

This is a public poll. Other members will be able to see which options you chose

Should we enable full community reputation? (Likes/Dislikes)

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#1 Zen_

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Posted 02 January 2017 - 09:33 PM

post-62591-0-41798200-1483411233.png

 

I've been asked about this many times, more so recently, both in public, chat, and in private. I figure it's best to have this discussion openly with our membership and to collectively decide how we, as a community, wish this to operate.

 

There are pro's and con's as there always are, but if we make the decision together not only will we all know how it works, but it will foster more connectedness when reputation is given - for better or worse. Coincidentally, it'll help all of us educate the incoming new members.

 

Current

The current reputation system is in "Likes" only mode, wherein likes are treated as positive reputation. Every member group has a limited number of likes for every 24-hour period. These limitations were put into place so that giving someone positive reputation means a lot as they are in limited supply. Each rep you give has more value, and reputation, therefore, should be taken as such. It's akin to a digital currency. The following groups have the specified amount of positive rep available:

  • Free Members - 15
  • All VIP Members - 20
  • Moderators - 40
  • App Admins - 50
  • Site Admins - 100

These numbers were chosen arbitrarily as simply limiting and evaluating. The issue is that people treat likes as they do on many other social media platforms, and not as a reputation or that they are limited in any way. This causes folks to be less careful and just like things to give the hat tip to the author. All this means they run out of likes until the following day.

 

Possible

There exists another mode that allows us to provide both positive and negative reputation. If something is good, rep it, if it's not good, don't rep it -- however, if it's truly a horrible post/article/blog, or lacks credibility, is spam, etc then down-vote it. While I did set the system up for this it's not something that we have chosen to turn on. The settings are as follows: (positive/negative)

  • Free Members - 15/5
  • All VIP Members - 20/10
  • Moderators - 40/20
  • App Admins - 50/25
  • Site Admins - 100/100

 

Now for the thoughts behind setting the system up the way it is. The "Likes Only" setting was chosen because we, as a community, were a little rough around the edges. Then after Hippie3 passed we suffered through a mini-dark age with lots of rampant negativity. That is not a place from which I would choose to promote any further negativity with a "dis-like" system, even if limited.

 

In the last 16 or so years lots of growing has occurred. I feel like the vibe has really mellowed out in the last couple of years and we've had a lot of positive feedback for the changes that have been made, including how we are organized and how we keep the ship righted. As we approach a new golden age I have no doubts that this place will be a vibrant beacon in the dark. That Mycotopia will thrive like it never has before as it comes into its own time, it's prime era, when people need her the most.

 

For these reasons I'm open to discussion on which system we choose to implement. In the spirit of positivity, I'm ok with keeping it a "likes only" system, but if ya'll think we're mature enough as a community to responsibly handle - and properly define - the negative reputation, then I'm ok turning it on. We can also simply re-configure the number of reps you're allowed to give.

 

My vote either way is that we still choose to limit both positive and negative reputation in order to give it more meaning, and hopefully persuade more thought when giving it.

 

The last part of this involves an opinion on what "positive" and "negative" reputation means, and does, throughout the site. Currently there aren't many features turned on, as we are in positive rep only mode, but once we begin truly using this as reputation it can become a kind of social currency. High rep'd folks will become, by nature, more senior among the community. The opinions being valued slightly more than lower rep'd folks. It's not meant to create a hierarchy of social status, but a hierarchy of knowledge and communal rights of passage. To say that reputation means something to people, it should seem common sense, but it's not always so common.

 

The other distinction is that we're not rep'ing people for who they are, we're rep'ing content that person has produced. Your positive reputation speaks for your contributions of spirit to this community.

 

There are also options that you cannot give rep unless you've received it, and also a modification that just turns the reputation "number" into a "progress bar" like image denoting how much rep you have out of how much rep. I guess this makes it easier to spot and understand how much rep exists.

 

ALL GOOD POINTS! I'm anxious to here your thoughts on this system. 

 

Much Love

:meditate:

Attached Thumbnails

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#2 Zen_

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Posted 02 January 2017 - 09:42 PM

I should also mention that we're working on a Mycotopia Guild system, which should play into how we handle reputation as well. More on that later.  :ph34r:


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#3 coorsmikey

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Posted 02 January 2017 - 09:57 PM

One thing I have wondered if possible, is sometimes someone will tell a terrible story about some hardship or something. You like their response but are completely sympathetic/empathetic to their situation and want to show some support. But I hesitate to throw a like out cuz I don't want someone to think I liked their misfortune. It would be cool if we could acknowledge those situations with a "heart" symbolizing love and acknowledgement rather than a thumbs up or down. Positive or negative. But personally I see no need for a negative response to be added. If it's that negative it should be reported and moderated. How would a negative rep really help "Akari's LSD" thread if the positive advice from respected members hasn't helped in all these years!

Edited by coorsmikey, 03 January 2017 - 12:44 AM.
Sp grammar hiccup

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#4 wharfrat

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Posted 02 January 2017 - 10:06 PM

i know it is tempting to have a dis-like for many reasons, but i can see it causing issues.. it would be cool to have other options like mikey stated. Like facebook, for example everyone wished for a thumbs down but they never gave us one,, they gave us smiles: happy, love, mad, sad.. i know this is prolly not an option here, but i think a dis-like may be taken in the wrong way and cause personal issues.. 


Edited by wharfrat, 02 January 2017 - 10:06 PM.

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#5 JustAnEyedea

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Posted 02 January 2017 - 10:11 PM

One thing I have wonder if possible, is sometimes someone will tell a terrible story about some hardship or something. You like their response but are complete sympathetic/empathetic to their situation and want to show some support. But I hesitate to throw a like out cuz I don't someone to think I liked their misfortune. It would be cool if we could acknowledge those situations with a "heart" symbolizing love and acknowledgement rather than a thumbs up or down. Positive or negative. But personally I see no need for a negative response to be added. If it's that negative it should be reported and moderated. How would a negative rep really help "Akari's LSD thread if the positive advice from respected members hasn't helped in all these years!

 

Interesting point. I don't think adding a negative option is necessary. It would be nice to have a heart option to sympathize with people, but how much would it actually be used? Zen_ works hard enough lol. I also don't find it necessary to add a negative response to the forums.

-my 2 cents


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#6 coorsmikey

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Posted 02 January 2017 - 10:14 PM

There would be a few that would abuse the neg rep.

Edited by coorsmikey, 02 January 2017 - 10:15 PM.

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#7 JustAnEyedea

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Posted 02 January 2017 - 10:16 PM

Definitely. Some people are just negative themselves, and if they have 15 negs a day to throw out there they might take advantage of that option.


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#8 ethnobotanist420

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Posted 02 January 2017 - 10:21 PM

I think reputation doesn't need to be measured... by definition it is a general feeling of the community towards someone and I feel like people will have either a good or bad reputation whether or not a number is attached to their username or not...

That being said, things like "the traders review" thread are very nice to have... you can see if someone has acted shady in the past but mostly you can see who has been very kind and trustworthy...

I also really like the "awards" we have for letting people know that they are appreciated or to give someone a pat on the back for something well done or for being a pillar of the community...

The like system, to me, has never really been a "reputation" system... just simply a way to say "hey that's awesome!" Without having to type up a personal message lol

I think the best way to get a feel for someone is to talk with them... not necessarily to "check their score" so to speak...

All of that being said, tho, I'm ok with whatever is decided!

I remember when we had a rep system back in the day with a ranking based on like a Catholic Church hierarchy and that was pretty fun lol I think I had made it to "prophet" or something before the switch and I was super proud haha it certainly is nice to get a pat on the back once in a while but I think that still happens all the time :)

Sorry, I'm kind of just rambling about things that are coming to mind right now but basically my opinion is this:

You do an amazing job around here, Zen, as well as everyone else involved... mods, admins...etc. Whatever is decided or put into place will be fantastic... I am sure of that. A reputation system could be a great way to show someone you appreciate what they are saying and doing... but I don't really have an opinion on giving "negative reputation" because I honestly never gave it.... maybe once or twice since I got here back in April 2010 until the new system.

Looking forward to seeing the site grow and growing with it,
-Ethno

EDIT:

I agree with Coorsmikey that if something that terrible is posted... talking to a moderator might be a better option than assigning negative reputation and letting that be the end of it...

I don't see anything that bad around here very often AT ALL... so I doubt I would be using the reputation system for anything other than giving out positive reputation.

I also agree with him that negative reputation could be abused by some... slapping people they don't like with negative rep for no reason other than to troll/piss the other person off.

For the record I voted "stay as it is"


Im anxiously awaiting the announcement of the "mycotopia guild system" and hearing what that all entails... interesting stuff!! :) amazing work zen!! <3

Edited by ethnobotanist420, 02 January 2017 - 10:34 PM.

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#9 Skywatcher

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Posted 02 January 2017 - 11:08 PM

I can't say I see any benefit to adding the ability to give negative rep. Even the most negative beginnings can generate a wealth of positive response from the members here.

To me it is far more constructive to "like" or give positive approval. I do not see how handing out negative rep would help anyone elevate or transform for the better.

 

I admit I still sometimes give a like just to say I agree, or approve, or enjoyed.

 

I too would like to sometimes give a heart to say I empathize or care...................

moreso than being able to give a dis-like.

I also preferred when "rep" was separate from giving likes, and people gave rep as a completely different process to members who showed accomplishment or excellent advice.


Edited by Skywatcher, 02 January 2017 - 11:17 PM.

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#10 Alder Logs

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Posted 02 January 2017 - 11:34 PM

I still mourn the loss of my Holiness from when I made it to Pope.   (It was all I ever wanted from the time I was an altar boy -- kidding.)     :-)

 

I see a problem arising with dislikes over issues of personality, because not everyone speaks the same language, especially in text world.   Words cannot be trusted with everything. 

 

I too have wanted to use likes to show empathy or care but "like" would not convey it at all.  

 

I feel we can keep the likes, and y'all can kiss my ring now.

 

PS: I would also be afraid to have dislikes because my joking around is usually done without them fucking smiley faces.  


Edited by Alder Logs, 02 January 2017 - 11:42 PM.

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#11 ethnobotanist420

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Posted 02 January 2017 - 11:52 PM

PS: I would also be afraid to have dislikes because my joking around is usually done without them fucking smiley faces.


**User Ethnobotanist420 dislikes this post**

 


Edited by AGAMA, 16 January 2017 - 09:23 PM.

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#12 Juthro

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Posted 03 January 2017 - 12:24 AM

I do not think we would gain anything as a community by adding a checkbox for 'dislike' on posts.

If folks really have a honest, legitimate, disagreement with a post, then that's what the next empty post in the thread is waiting for.

Edited by Juthro, 03 January 2017 - 12:27 AM.

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#13 coorsmikey

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Posted 03 January 2017 - 12:28 AM

Here is a good example from Rise. I want to show acknowledgement and thanks for posting, but I don't want to acknowledge a "thumbs up" for what is happening here.

The world’s African elephants are in serious danger. It is estimated that one is killed every 15 minutes for their ivory tusks, and if we do nothing to put an end to the illegal ivory trade, elephants will be extinct from the wild within in the next 20 years. Elephants have graced the planet for thousands of years and their loss would inextricably alter their native habitat. While countries like the U.S. and China have taken action to try and mitigate the illegal ivory trade, it appears that this action is not moving quickly enough to save the world’s elephants – however, there is a new form of hope rising from nature itself.
 
African elephants are being born without the tusks that poachers have targeted for decades. That’s right, the largest land mammal on earth is now being born tuskless since elephants without tusks have a better chance of surviving and passing on genes.
In Addo Elephant National Park, in South Africa as many as 98 percent of female elephants no longer have tusks; this follows a massacring of the creatures by poachers in 1931, which left only 11 elephants remaining, four of them tuskless.
The depressing adaptation has arisen at a time where elephants are in serious danger of extinction.

shutterstock_108836006.jpgJONATHAN PLEDGER/Shutterstock

 
The vitally important Great Elephant Census revealed that almost a third of African elephants were wiped out between 2007 and 2014 alone for the sake of ivory. The detailed survey took count of carcasses and found the highest occurrences in Cameroon (83 percent),
 
Mozambique (32 percent), Angola (30 percent) and Tanzania (26 percent). The report states that carcass ratios above eight percent are enough to indicate poaching at a serious level, enough to bring about a decline in population. The situation is so bleak, that these intelligent giants have even been observed attempting to hide their tusks.
So, is it a good thing if they don’t have tusks, to stop poachers from killing and robbing them?

shutterstock_203562340.jpgDonovan van Staden/Shutterstock

 
It is never acceptable for a creature to lose its natural habitat or the opportunity to interact with that habitat in an instinctive way. Elephant tusks are not there for table ornaments or piano keys; they are needed to dig for sustenance, to fight, to move around trees and of course, for sexual display. An elephant’s tusks are a key part of elephant life, not to mention the entire ecosystem that surrounds them.
 
Many believe that a poacher could extract ivory without killing the elephant – this is not true. Only two-thirds of an elephant’s tusks are visible, the rest lies beneath the surface like an iceberg in water. The tusk is not just bone but rather it is alive, filled with nerves and blood vessels and when broken off, the tusks would likely become infected and lead to a slow and painful death.
 
Fearing for the survival of “great tuskers” in particular, scientists have attempted to preserve these mighty-tusked bulls by extracting and freezing the elephant’s seed – in hopes of reintroducing “tusker genetics” if necessary in future.
 
The good news from the Great Elephant Census is that it has raised awareness of those areas that need the most pressure and support to crack down on illegal poaching. As well as this, it revealed some places that were doing a much better job protecting the animals and their habitat, including Kenya, where former poachers have been hired as park rangers to defend elephants. Faced with the strong possibility of losing elephants to extinction, action is needed globally to put a stop to the ivory trade and it’s in our power to make this happen by cutting demand and raising awareness, particularly with big consumers like China.
 
Ivory poachers are not the only danger faced by elephants today, and groups like the World Wildlife Fund (WWF) and Born Free need support more than ever to create a safe world where elephants can live in harmony with humans, tusks and all.






http://www.onegreenp...-without-tusks/

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#14 happy4nic8r

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Posted 03 January 2017 - 12:30 AM

Thank you, Zen.  Asked answered, and you did me one better, put it up for a vote. 

 

Always thinking aren't you!

 

That's why you're the man.



#15 Juthro

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Posted 03 January 2017 - 12:54 AM

Great example, Mikey.

(and that's what my like for. 'Cuz I'm not saying that I like what is happening to the elephants)

Edited by Juthro, 03 January 2017 - 12:55 AM.


#16 Sidestreet

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Posted 03 January 2017 - 05:53 AM

 

I also preferred when "rep" was separate from giving likes, and people gave rep as a completely different process to members who showed accomplishment or excellent advice.

 

I thought this was a good system too.  These days I'm as likely to "like" something just to indicate that I read it.  The rep is out of sight most of the time, and you need to mouse over a person's name to see how much rep they have.  Even then it just shows an arbitrary number, which is not as much fun as seeing a title.

 

I don't think we need negative rep either.  We can post responses more appropriate than the bald negativity expressed by a "dislike". 


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#17 CatsAndBats

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Posted 03 January 2017 - 07:36 AM

I don't think that negative votes would go well at all. The star system on threads points to how a "like/dislike" system could go wrong. On the "new member, introduce yourself thread" a couple of knuckleheads gave the thread 1 star making the average on it 3 stars. This does not reflect how most of our community values new members or their intros (at least I hope not). I mean, how can such a positive and relatively innocuous thread have such a low average? Do we not value intros? Do we not want to hear about our latest additions to our beloved community? Truthfully I'm a little embarrassed for the community to have such a low "score" on an intro thread. I can only imagine how a couple of dislikes could derail new ideas, shame a neophyte because of a "newb" question, or make someone feel shitty about an opinion.

So no, I vote no.
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#18 Arathu

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Posted 10 January 2017 - 05:31 PM

I'm inclined to feel that this already answered here in this excerpt below.................and IMHO if we are a family then we ALL are staff of sorts, from the free member to founders. We are also all human and we have good days and bad days. Effective emotional communication between human beings is difficult face to face, IME, let alone in a text/forum setting. So I fall back to the wisdom laid out below................

 

Excerpt:

 

Remember

Excuses Distract

Embrace your challenges. Instead of dwelling on the difficulties to accomplish something, give your energy and attention to what needs to be done. Stay with how you can ... rather than indulging in why you can't.

 

Drama Drains

Choose truth. Hold back on adding unnecessary emotion to a situation. Avoid exaggerating the positive or negative of anything or anyone. Be thoughtful, optimistic, and encouraging.

 

Complaints Bore

Create solutions. Shake off useless thoughts and statements of entitlement and resignation. Need to vent? Do it privately. Be results-focused. Inspire personal responsibility.

 

 

 

Just my couple of pfennig.................. 

 

A

 

 

Demonstrate Leadership

I will care about the people I work with

I will involve them the way I'd like to be involved

I will treat them the way I'd like to be treated



#19 TVCasualty

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Posted 10 January 2017 - 05:45 PM

I remember when "reputation" was first added to the forum, and it was originally intended to be a way to assess other members' trading habits. It was not supposed to be about how much we liked a particular post.

 

It quickly took on a life of it's own and became much more than trading-only rep (and much less at the same time since after that point someone's rep couldn't really be used to assess their trading integrity).

 

 

So I guess one possible approach would be to create two separate "reputation" scores; one for trading and one for "likes" of posts.



#20 Heirloom

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Posted 10 January 2017 - 07:37 PM

I realize I am very liberal with likes.

Alder that's funny , I needed a good laugh.






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