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Bears Berries - Part 1 Elderberry


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#1 PsyBearknot

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Posted 09 January 2017 - 10:34 AM

the obsession begins

This will be my grow log of elderberry in containers

Not a lot of info out there on elderberry in containers. Mostly info stating it can be done with heavy pruning each year and around 7-10 gallon pots or larger

First year growth canes will produce a few flower heads and may produce Berries
Second year will produce main bulk of flowers and Berries
3rd year starts to decline

Pruning goal to keep 5-7 two year old canes for each plant.

Goal to keep the containers to a manageble size to be able to move locations with in the next 2 years
Not ideal as I will be moving all the bushes during the time they should be most productive Duda it up coming need to move.

First two plants were purchased from a local gardener. From research was told that most berry like more then one plant for pollination tho most are self fertil they benifit from more then one kind.

Was told they were named varieties - German, Haschberg and goldebeere (a supposed golden elderberry
I was disappointed to learn they were not the American or European elderberry that is written about. But I decided to get these and at least get a start.

Most of all the research that has been done on elderberry is the European elderberry tho it is felt the American is so close that it provides the same benifits. But I found little on these 2 German varieties.

Expanding my search I found a website called Norms Farm. They have been very into the recent movement on improving and researching elderberry. I liked what is saw from their site and just got angeneral good feeling that they cared about the plant they sold and were not one of the many garden web sites just out for the $$$

On their site they offered hardwood cutting of 6 varieties some they had discovered on their family farm and some that were donated to the elderberry improvement project they were working on with a university.

All were American elderberry.

So I decided to pick up cuttings of these since they are more closely related, according to the reading I had done, to the European elderberry that has had all of the research AND all are hardy and or native to my area.

So here is my grow log and here is to an"healthy" obsession.

Edited by PsyBearknot, 15 January 2017 - 05:54 PM.

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#2 PsyBearknot

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Posted 15 January 2017 - 11:52 AM

Wyldewood:

Wyldewood was provided to the University of Missouri-Columbia for the Elderberry Improvement Project and has shown promise as the second place producer at university trials with potential to produce up to 12,000 pounds per acre. One of the earliest and longest flowering varieties, Wylewood has great commercial potential.

http://normsfarms.co...berry-cuttings/IMG_4622.JPG

Edited by PsyBearknot, 15 January 2017 - 07:57 PM.

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#3 PsyBearknot

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Posted 15 January 2017 - 06:53 PM

Ranch:

Ranch tends to be more compact and upright. Shorter plants make for easier harvesting, and this plant might be good fit for a “You Pick” operation. Tolerates marginal or less fertile soils

http://normsfarms.co...berry-cuttings/
IMG_4626.JPG

Edited by PsyBearknot, 15 January 2017 - 07:59 PM.

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#4 PsyBearknot

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Posted 15 January 2017 - 06:55 PM

Magnolia:

Magnolia was wild collected on a property in the Piedmont Region of North Carolina. This is one of the most vigorous varieties and tolerates heat but needs good moisture to produce well. High yields and tall growth habit (12 to 15 feet in height) make this a great variety for hedge rows, windscreens and wild life plantings. Large clusters of berries up to two pounds

http://normsfarms.co...berry-cuttings/IMG_4624.JPG

Edited by PsyBearknot, 15 January 2017 - 08:01 PM.

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#5 PsyBearknot

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Posted 15 January 2017 - 06:56 PM

Eridu:

Eridu was wild collected and has its origin on our small family farm located in Hartsburg MO. This heavy producers thrives in the Midwest climate, Tolerates drought, bears well and is more disease and insect reistant than other varieties.

http://normsfarms.co...berry-cuttings/IMG_4620.JPG

Edited by PsyBearknot, 15 January 2017 - 08:03 PM.

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#6 PsyBearknot

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Posted 15 January 2017 - 06:58 PM

Bob Gordon:

Bob Gordon Extra sweet and a great choice for winemakers because of a high BRIX rating, Bob Gardon was found near Osceloa, Missouri. Higher yields can be expected with this cultivar. Clusters are apt to hang downwards when fully ripe, a nice adaptation that seems to protect them from bird predation. Produced well in University trials.


http://normsfarms.co...berry-cuttings/IMG_4625.JPG

Edited by PsyBearknot, 15 January 2017 - 08:06 PM.

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#7 PsyBearknot

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Posted 15 January 2017 - 07:24 PM

Adams:

Adams. This variety ripens early and produces large clusters of purplish/black berries. This robust cultivar produces sweet berries and large yields. Adams was originally collected as an old cultivar from New York.

http://normsfarms.co...berry-cuttings/IMG_4623.JPG

Edited by PsyBearknot, 15 January 2017 - 08:08 PM.

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#8 PsyBearknot

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Posted 15 January 2017 - 08:21 PM

How to root elderberry cuttings

http://normsfarms.co...berry-cuttings/


To get your cuttings rooted you will need the following supplies:

Rooting hormone or rooting stimulant, like Rootone, Super Thrive, honey, or willow bark.
Large pots or a prepared garden bed.
Soil-less potting medium like coarse sand, regular potting mix, coconut coir, or blends such as a mixture of one part peat and one part Perlite (by volume), or one part peat and one part sand (by volume).
A spade, if you are planning on starting your cuttings outdoors in the ground.
How To Root Elderberry CuttingsElderberry Cuttings are propagated following typical hard wood propagation techniques. When you receive your cuttings the first thing you want to do is soak them in well water or distilled water for 24 hours. Fill a large glass container like a canning jar with the well water or distilled water and place your cuttings in the water, angle side down. Place the jar in a cool location away from direct sunlight and let sit for 24 hours. After the 24 hour soak period it’s time to prepare the cuttings for planting.

Remove the cuttings from the container of well or distilled water, and place them on a paper towel to air dry for a couple of minutes. Empty a small amount of rooting hormone into a clean bowl. Dust the angled end of the cutting with rooting hormone, and tap the cutting against the side of the bowl to remove the excess rooting hormone.


Using Rooting hormone helps prevent fungus and bacteria from infecting your cutting and helps speed the rooting process. Most commercially available rooting hormone products contain a synthetic version of a class of plant hormones called auxins. These synthetic hormones are called IBA or NAA. Due to their synthetic nature, IBA and NAA are not approved for use in certified organic crop production. However, many gardeners and farmers–who lean organic, but choose not to be certified–use IBA and NAA, believing that these chemicals do not negatively affect the quality of their produce. If you want to use only natural products, both honey and willow bark water are reported to work well as a rooting stimulant.

Fill a large container with a soil-less potting mix and using your clean index finger or a pencil, create a hole in the potting mix into which you will insert the cutting. Doing so helps to insure that you won’t knock off too much of the rooting hormone when you plant your cuttings.


Plant up to three cuttings in each large pot by carefully inserting the angled end dusted with rooting hormone into the soil-less potting medium. Be sure to leave the top nodes located near the flat end of the cutting exposed as this is where the new elderberry plant will develop leaves.

Water well until the soil-less medium is soaked through. If you live in a place that experiences mild to moderate winters the best place for your elderberry cuttings is outdoors in a sheltered and shady spot. The shelter and shade will prevent the rooting cuttings from drying out due to too much sun or wind, and the cool winter air provides the best rooting environment possible by encouraging root growth rather than leaf growth. For added insurance, heal the potted cuttings into the surrounding soil.


Folks that live up north where winters can be long and quite cold should either plant their cuttings directly in the ground or place their potted cuttings in an unheated space like a garage and provide the cuttings with a tent to help keep them moist.


If you choose to root your cuttings indoors in an unheated, sheltered and shady spot, be sure to check the pots weekly to ensure that the soil is still moist and water as needed. Keep the pot tented, as shown above, until the cuttings have rooted well. Placing the pot in a tray to collect any water that runs out of the pot is also a good idea.

The best permanent location for an elderberry bush is one that receives at least 6 hours of direct sunlight per day and allows the elderberry to get about 10 feet tall and 6 to 8 feet around. Elderberry is one of those plants that “sleeps, creeps and then leaps”, meaning that it spends most of its first year establishing a good root system, begins to take off on the second year, and then grows vigorously during its third year. You can control the size of your elderberry bush by pruning away the old third year wood and removing any canes that are growing where you don’t want them to be.

Edited by PsyBearknot, 15 January 2017 - 08:23 PM.

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#9 PsyBearknot

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Posted 15 January 2017 - 08:31 PM

'Haschberg

Also described as German but mostly described as the European elderberry.

Haschberg is a variety of black European elder, especially popular in commercial orchards in Austria and Germany. It produces abundant and large clusters of dark purple berries, and grows to about 8 feet tall.
European black elderberries are the most sought-after and productive elder species because they have been selected for heavy yields and tolerance of temperatures well below 0°F. If you buy elderberries or elderberry tincture in the store, you are most likely looking at a variety of European black elder, Sambucus nigra. This species is partly self-fertile, so doesn't require cross pollination, but the yields will be heavier with a second variety planted near by.

IMG_4617.JPG

Edited by PsyBearknot, 15 January 2017 - 08:33 PM.

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#10 PsyBearknot

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Posted 15 January 2017 - 08:42 PM

Goldbeere

The only golden-berried elderberry, 'Goldbeere' was developed by German growers, a group that doesn't mess around when it comes to plant breeding. Shrub is more upright than other European cultivars and very productive. Since this is a nigra selection, you need to process the berries to make them edible, either by cooking or wine-making. Fabulous with the native Scuppernong grape in jams or jellies. And if you're looking for golden berries for flower arrangements in mid-summer, these branches are unsurpassed in mixed bouquets

(At this time I may not have a live plant as I am waiting till spring to see if last years plant survives the winter )
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#11 GLP

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Posted 16 January 2017 - 08:17 PM

PsyBearknot - I suffer occasionally from an immune system deficiency called Epstein Barr Syndrome, my Wife and I co-owned a Natural Food Store for several years. Because of this background I contacted Dr. David Williams to see if there was any natural supplements that I could use to lessen the symptoms when an attack manifests. His response is attached below with our pleasantries removed. I hope this can help someone else out.

 

Undated from "The Only Defense from the New Killer Viruses" April, 2003

 

 Virus–Killing Berry

 

 Probably the only people in the world who don’t mind viruses are Hollywood producers—and that’s because they’ve found they can make millions off of chilling films about virus outbreaks. Viruses cause everything from colds and flu to herpes and AIDS. But all the money in Hollywood won’t buy these producers a cure, because there is none.

 

 Or at least there wasn’t—until now.  I have had the privilege of conversations with an Israeli Researcher, Dr. Madeleine Mumcuoglu (pronounced mum-shu-glu). She has told me about a remarkable elderberry extract she developed called Sambucol. (Sambucol comes from the Latin name for elderberry, Sambucus nigra.) I’ve been investigating Sambucol for some time, and it is definitely something you need to be aware of.  Sambucol has been shown to be effective at inactivatin viruses, which is no small feat. Proven antiviral preparations are few and far between, especially natural ones. With the exception of the expensive and limited use of interferon, even the pharmaceutical companies haven’t been able to come up with an effective antiviral. Surprisingly, the person who discovered interferon also played a part in the development of Sambucol.

 In 1980, Dr. Mumcuoglu looked for a research topic to complete her doctorate in virology (the study of viruses).  Her supervisor, Dr. Jean Linderman, the discoverer of interferon, suggested elderberries. Dr. Mumcuoglu acted on the suggestion and completed her thesis on elderberries in the early 1980s. But she didn’t pursue the topic again for the next 10 years. It was in 1992 that she resumed her research on the antiviral effects of elderberries. Shortly thereafter, she developed and patented a procedure to isolate certain active compounds from the berries.

 

Her extract proved to be just as effective in human tests as it did in the laboratory. Since elderberries had been used extensively in folk medicine to treat influenza, Dr. Mumcuoglu told me she decided to channel her first research efforts in that direction. And since elderberries are known to be nontoxic, Dr. Mumcuoglu was able to test her product on actual patients in the Southern Israeli flu epidemic of 1992-93. The results were very encouraging. Within 24 hours, 20 percent of those patients taking Sambucol had dramatic improvements in symptoms like fever, muscle aches and pains, and coughing. By the second day, 73 percent were improved and by day three, 90 percent. In the untreated group, only 16 percent felt better after two days. It took the majority of that group almost a week to begin feeling better. (Infect Dis April 26-30, 1994; Prague, Abstract #1271,392)

 

I’ve talked to numerous doctors and patients using the product, and everyone I’ve interviewed so far had nothing but praise for it. Everyone agreed that if the product is taken at the first sign of flu, the problem will disappear within 24 to 48 hours. Some report that it is just as effective for treating colds and even the herpes-like Epstein-Barr virus. In our discussions, Dr. Mumcuoglu didn’t seem surprised that the extract worked on other viral conditions as well as the flu. Dr. Mumcuoglu also told me that Researchers at Hadassah-Hebrew University Medical Center in Israel have shown that in laboratory tests, Sambucol stimulates the body’s immune system by increasing production of disease-fighting lymphocytes. It also acts as a powerful antioxidant.

 

 Why conventional medicines haven’t been effective. Today, most research efforts are now concentrating on creating drugs that inactivate viruses and make them incapable of penetrating healthy cells, instead of killing the viruses outright. However, these drugs have been difficult to create since viruses can mutate into hundreds, if not thousands, of different forms. Dr. Mumcuoglu’s extract seems to work based on this premise. The active ingredients in elderberries apparently bind with viruses before they have a chance to penetrate the wall of a normal cell. This is another case where a natural substance has far greater capabilities than anything man can create synthetically.

 

 She told me the extract has been lab tested on seven different strains of influenza viruses—Hong Kong, Beijing, Singapore, Ann Arbor, Yamagata, Texas and Panama. It was effective on every single one. As far as its effectiveness on Epstein-Barr, colds, and other viral-related diseases, it is still being tested. Based on its mode of action though, it should prove to be effective on a wide range of “envelope” viruses such as influenza viruses, the hundreds of rhinoviruses responsible for colds, the Epstein-Barr virus, HIV, and the herpes virus.

 

How to use Sambucol: While Sambucol has been sold in Israel over the counter for some time, only recently has it become available in the United States and France. It comes in two forms, as liquid syrup or as a lozenge. Each package contains enough for four days (for adults), more than enough to knock out a cold or flu.

 

 The normal recommended dosages are:

  •  Children under one year, two teaspoons daily.
  •  Children 1–6 years old, one or two table-spoons or two lozenges daily.
  •  Children 6–12 years old, two to three tablespoons or lozenges daily.
  •  Children over 12 and adults, four tablespoons or lozenges.

 

Since Sambucol is slightly acidic, it should be taken following meals to avoid stomach upset. The standard product has been sweetened with honey and glucose. If you are counting calories or are diabetic, you might consider the product sweetened with aspartame.

 

 

The recipe I follow to make a syrup with my backyard elderberries

 

 

How to make your own elderberry syrup.

Prep time 5 mins

Cook time 1 hour

Total time 1 hour 5 mins

 

A simple elderberry syrup recipe made with dried elderberries, honey and herbs for an immune boosting and delicious syrup. Can be used medicinally or on homemade pancakes or waffles.

Author: Wellness Mama

Serves: 1 quart

 

Ingredients

    ⅔ cup dried black elderberries (about 3 ounces)

    3½ cups of water

    2 Tablespoons fresh or dried ginger root

    1 teaspoon cinnamon powder

    ½ teaspoon cloves or clove powder

    1 cup raw honey (See Caution Below)

 

Instructions

    Pour water into medium saucepan and add elderberries, ginger, cinnamon and cloves (do not add honey!)

    Bring to a boil and then cover and reduce to a simmer for about 45 minutes to an hour until the liquid has reduced by almost half. At that point, remove from heat and let cool enough to be handled. Mash the berries carefully using a spoon or other flat utensil. Pour through a strainer into a glass jar or bowl.

    Discard the elderberries (or compost them!) and let the liquid cool to lukewarm. When it is no longer hot, add 1 cup of honey and stir well.

    When honey is well mixed into the elderberry mixture, pour the syrup into a quart sized Mason jar or 16 ounce glass bottle of some kind.

Store in the fridge and take daily for its immune boosting properties.

 

Is there a substitute for honey in elderberry syrup?

Some people prefer not to use a sweetener and honey is not recommended for babies under 1-2 years old. Some easy substitutes are:

 

  • Use maple syrup or nutrient rich molasses in place of the honey.
  • Omit the sweetener all together (this will make elderberry juice which will need to be consumed much more quickly).
  • Make an elderberry tincture for adults. Mix the concentrated elderberry syrup with equal parts food grade alcohol like vodka or brandy instead of sweetener. This obviously wouldn’t be for kids, but is a sweetener free option for adults.

 

Can I use powdered elderberries?

Yes, I've used powdered elderberries when whole elderberries are not available. Just use 1/2 cup in this recipe instead of 2/3 cup.


Edited by GLP, 16 January 2017 - 08:19 PM.

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#12 PsyBearknot

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Posted 16 January 2017 - 08:43 PM

DUDE! thank you so much for posting this!

Sambucol is what I was introduced to and what I currently use.

I had found and bookmarked the wellness mama's syrup recipe and she makes gummies as well!

What this does for me is answer my question of will my homemade extract/syrup be effective enough to be on par with sambucol and I feel now that it will be and am even more encouraged to be growing this plant. I can't believe it has taken so long to get over here in the U.S.

One thing I am still courious about is the toxicity of the plant in all its parts
Most agree that the leaves and stems are toxic
A lot of back and forth on the berry most agree that the berry has to be cooked and that renders it non toxic

But above states "and since elderberries are known to be non toxic" Is this in reference to the extract or the cooked syrup or are the fresh berries as well?
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#13 GLP

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Posted 16 January 2017 - 09:10 PM

I am afraid I do not have definitive information here, based on a a book by Richo Cech the Medicinal Herb Grower I ordered only the black elderberry seeds (Nigra). If I am remembering the book correctly all black (Nigra) seeds where safe to consume, the blue can sometimes cause stomach discomfort and the red should be avoided. So based on this I ordered the black seeds, cold stratified and started growing the seeds the following Spring into full grown plants. I have also now added a few other black varieties of elderberries, but have stayed away from the other seed colors.

 

Taken from a Wicca page, they state the following.

 

ELDER

(Sambucus canadensis or nigra)

Also known as Ellhorn, Elderberry, Lady Elder, and Black Berried Elder. A Druid Sacred Tree. Sacred to the White Lady and Midsummer Solstice. The Druids used it to both bless and curse. In Chinese medicine, the leaves, stems, and roots are used to treat fractures and muscle spasms. The flowers treat colds, sore throats, hay fever, and arthritis, and act as a mild laxative. Named the "country medicine chest" for its many health uses, the Elderberry is also rich in European folklore.


The black elder (S. nigra) can be used as an insecticide in the garden aor to repel insects fromt he face and body. A simple infusion of the fresh leaf is made for this purpose. It can also be poured down mouse and mole holes. The berries are used for jam, wine, pies, and syrups. Medicinally, they help coughs, colic, diarrhea, sore throats, asthma, and flu. A pinch of cinnamon makes the tea more warming. The leaves are added to salves fro skin conditions. The flowers are infused for fevers, eruptive skin conditions such as measles, and severe bronchial and lung problems. A classic flu remedy is a mixture of elderflower, yarrow and peppermint teas. Keep the patient well covered, as the flowers promote sweating. Use two teaspoons of the herbs per cup of water, steep for twenty minutes, and take up to three cups a day.


Parts Used: Leaf, flower, and berry
Magical Uses: Elder wands can be used to drive out evil spirits or thought forms. Music on panpipes or flutes made of elder have the same power of the wands. A Dryad "Elder Mother" is said to live in the tree; she will haunt anyone who cuts down her wood. Stand or sleep under an elder on Midsummer Eve to see the King of the Faeries and his retinue pass by. The flowers are used in wish-fulfillment spells. The leaves , flowers, and berries ae strewn on aperson, place or thing to bless it. Wood is NOT to be burned as it is sacred to Hecate. Flowers are used for altar offerings. Hung over doorways and windows, it keeps evil from the house. Carry Elder to preserve against the temptation to commit adultery.
Use for: Money; Riches; Love; Blessings; Banishing; Releasing; Consecration; Cursing; Purification; Cleansing.

 

I use the cuttings as plant staked the following year once they have dried out, but that does not appear to be much more help. I do like the comments about carrying Elder to preserve against the temptation of adultery, "Are you just carrying Elder or are you happy to see me?"


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#14 Arathu

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Posted 19 January 2017 - 08:32 AM

You got my attention with this one for sure! I've been meaning to get Elderberries going here..................and now I shall! Good stuff Bear and GLP!


Edited by Arathu, 19 January 2017 - 09:04 AM.

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#15 SteampunkScientist

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Posted 02 February 2017 - 07:21 AM

Pulling up a chair on this one! Excellent info!



#16 PsyBearknot

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Posted 07 March 2017 - 05:28 AM

Magnolia:
Magnolia was wild collected on a property in the Piedmont Region of North Carolina. This is one of the most vigorous varieties and tolerates heat but needs good moisture to produce well. High yields and tall growth habit (12 to 15 feet in height) make this a great variety for hedge rows, windscreens and wild life plantings. Large clusters of berries up to two poundshttp://normsfarms.co...berry-cuttings/attachicon.gifIMG_4624.JPG

Back mid January I got another set of cuttings that I wanted to try and root in water
Here is recent shot of development.IMG_4702.JPG IMG_4703.JPG IMG_4704.JPG
IMG_4704.JPG

Edited by PsyBearknot, 07 March 2017 - 05:29 AM.


#17 PsyBearknot

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Posted 07 March 2017 - 05:42 AM


Magnolia:
Magnolia was wild collected on a property in the Piedmont Region of North Carolina. This is one of the most vigorous varieties and tolerates heat but needs good moisture to produce well. High yields and tall growth habit (12 to 15 feet in height) make this a great variety for hedge rows, windscreens and wild life plantings. Large clusters of berries up to two poundshttp://normsfarms.co...berry-cuttings/attachicon.gifIMG_4624.JPG

Back mid January I got another set of cuttings that I wanted to try and root in water
Here is recent shot of development.attachicon.gifIMG_4702.JPGattachicon.gifIMG_4703.JPGattachicon.gifIMG_4704.JPG
attachicon.gifIMG_4704.JPG
The first set of cuttings were soaked in water for a couple of days and dipped into rooting hormone. Cuttings have started to sprout leaves but this set are very droopyIMG_4686.JPG

#18 PsyBearknot

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Posted 07 March 2017 - 05:49 AM

Eridu:
Eridu was wild collected and has its origin on our small family farm located in Hartsburg MO. This heavy producers thrives in the Midwest climate, Tolerates drought, bears well and is more disease and insect reistant than other varieties.http://normsfarms.co...berry-cuttings/attachicon.gifIMG_4620.JPG

Cuttings soaked and dipped in rooting hormoneIMG_4680.JPG IMG_4694.JPG

#19 PsyBearknot

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Posted 07 March 2017 - 05:54 AM

Bob Gordon:
Bob Gordon Extra sweet and a great choice for winemakers because of a high BRIX rating, Bob Gardon was found near Osceloa, Missouri. Higher yields can be expected with this cultivar. Clusters are apt to hang downwards when fully ripe, a nice adaptation that seems to protect them from bird predation. Produced well in University trials.http://normsfarms.co...berry-cuttings/attachicon.gifIMG_4625.JPG

Cuttings soaked and dipped in rooting hormone and plantedIMG_4692.JPG

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  • IMG_4682.JPG


#20 PsyBearknot

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Posted 07 March 2017 - 05:58 AM

Wyldewood:
Wyldewood was provided to the University of Missouri-Columbia for the Elderberry Improvement Project and has shown promise as the second place producer at university trials with potential to produce up to 12,000 pounds per acre. One of the earliest and longest flowering varieties, Wylewood has great commercial potential.http://normsfarms.co...berry-cuttings/attachicon.gifIMG_4622.JPG

Cuttings soaked and dipped in rooting hormone and planted

IMG_4684.JPG IMG_4690.JPG




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