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Substrate water content guide


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#1 Ferather

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Posted 11 January 2017 - 01:14 PM

Content range:
 
x 1 Dry Substrate | 1 Part(s) | 50% Water.
x 2 Dry Substrate | 2 Part(s) | 66% Water.
x 3 Dry Substrate | 3 Part(s) | 75% Water.
x 4 Dry Substrate | 4 Part(s) | 80% Water.
 
 
Example:
 
100g Pellets, I want 80% water content.
100g BRF, I want 66% water content.
 
 
Pellets:
 
100g - 5% = 95g dry (difference 5). 95 x 4 = 380 (4/5 total parts). 380 - 5 = 375g water.
 
100g pellets + 375g water = 80% water content total. 475g / 5 = 95g.
 
 
BRF:
 
100g - 5% = 95g dry (difference 5). 95 x 2 = 190 (2/3 total parts). 190 - 5 = 185g water.
 
100g BRF + 185g water = 66% water content total. 285g / 3 = 95g.
 
 
Total water to add: 375g + 185g = 560g

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#2 kcmoxtractor

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Posted 11 January 2017 - 08:01 PM

except if you use 560g of water with 100gr of pellets and 100 gr of brf

the substrate would be swimming. for 200 gr of dry material, use 300 gr

of water or 60% moisture. 

 

your math is good, but the amounts of water you suggest are too high. 

 

try 50% for substrates above 8 lbs, 55% for substrates 6.5-8 lbs, 60% for

substrates 5-6.5 lbs. there's no real point in substrates smaller than 5 lbs,

just use bottle culture instead, but the substrate for bottle culture should

still be 60% moisture. 


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#3 happy4nic8r

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Posted 11 January 2017 - 09:39 PM

It's a good thing I dont use math to figure moisture content.

 

Or a recipe for that matter.

 

I've found every batch is a little different, and measuring or weighing substrates vs water just gets me close.

 

Now I'm almost getting what you guys are talking about, but something eludes me with the numbers...?


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#4 kcmoxtractor

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Posted 12 January 2017 - 12:25 AM

a 1000 gram substrate at 60% moisture content would be 

 

400 dry grams

600 grams water

 

a 1000 gram substrate at 50% moisture content would be

 

500 dry grams

500 grams water

 

it's a lot easier to conceptualize in multiples of 10. 

 

if you're not figuring out moisture content by % then you're either putting in a lot

of extra work or not growing very much. it's the only way to get consistent results

on any kind of scale, that's why every scaled recipe you've ever seen is measured 

by mass. when you use pellets, the batches are not different. they're wonderfully

consistent from batch to batch, that's what makes them so handy.


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#5 Ferather

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Posted 12 January 2017 - 10:58 AM

except if you use 560gr of water with 100gr of pellets and 100 gr of brf

the substrate would be swimming. for 200 gr of dry material, use 300 gr

of water or 60% moisture. 

 

your math is good, but the amounts of water you suggest are too high. 

 

Paper pellets can hold 80% water content, that's 100g + 375g. Regardless its just a calculation example.

 

if you're not figuring out moisture content by % then you're either putting in a lot

of extra work or not growing very much. it's the only way to get consistent results

on any kind of scale, that's why every scaled recipe you've ever seen is measured 

by mass. when you use pellets, the batches are not different. they're wonderfully

consistent from batch to batch, that's what makes them so handy.

 

Could not agree more, I also find it inaccurate to do volume to weight, such as 100ml pellets to 100g water.



#6 kcmoxtractor

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Posted 12 January 2017 - 11:11 AM

nobody grows on paper pellets, people grow on wood fuel pellets though,

and they should be 50-60% moisture content. even straw pellets and soybean

hull pellets turn to a muddy mush when taken above 60%, and paper pellets

say on the bag that they "can hold 400% of its weight in moisture".  that's partially 

true, it can keep animal urine from sitting in a puddle, but when mycelium grows

through paper at 80% moisture and wrings it out to field capacity then your sub

is sitting in an inch of water and it's all over but the cryin'. 


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#7 Ferather

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Posted 12 January 2017 - 11:37 AM

Hmm in my 2 years of using paper pellets at 80% water content not once have I ever had a puddle, and no more condensate than normal.

My guess is you have never used paper pellets, no offense but that also means you have no grounds for evidence or proof.

 

If you want burden of proof I have multitudes of images that will prove you wrong. Sh**mery all over again!



#8 Needles

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Posted 12 January 2017 - 12:21 PM

Hmm in my 2 years of using paper pellets at 80% water content not once have I ever had a puddle, and no more condensate than normal.
My guess is you have never used paper pellets, no offense but that also means you have no grounds for evidence or proof.
 
If you want burden of proof I have multitudes of images that will prove you wrong. Sh**mery all over again!

If your growing on paper pellets and have your tech down, that's awesome for growing oyster mushrooms. KC is right though, for growing medicinal and gourmet mushrooms wood pellets sawdust and or wood chips are used. Field capacity is what we strive for. It's always good to have your proportions right but with wood substrates it's hard to judge the amount of moisture that it will take to achieve field capacity. I personally like to use the same mixture of sawdust and wood chips each time then soak them overnight. Use gravity to drain the excess moisture. Then add nutrients and minerals.
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#9 Ferather

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Posted 12 January 2017 - 02:45 PM

I know, I have used wood pellets plenty, including experiments with pine (contains inhibitory resins) and oleoresins. I am aware wood pellets holding ability is much lower.

So for many saying 80% water content is a sudden no no from the basis of wood pellets, and I agree. Here is King oyster on my enrichment tek @ 80% water.

 

IMG_20160810_105152.jpg IMG_20160811_094825.jpg IMG_20160812_112851.jpg IMG_20160813_113439.jpg IMG_20160814_103548.jpg IMG_20160821_101329.jpg


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#10 Ferather

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Posted 12 January 2017 - 02:50 PM

Here is my King oyster strain consuming enriched 50/50 paper pellets and pine pellets. Using the same grow up method.

 

IMG_20160817_100800.jpg IMG_20160818_103825.jpg IMG_20160819_115832.jpg IMG_20160822_111521.jpg IMG_20160902_103417.jpg IMG_20160902_103525.jpg



#11 mjroom

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Posted 12 January 2017 - 02:55 PM

great expansion of growth in your tub. Do you start the tub with an inoculated teabag on the bottom of the tub then ad in the enriched paper pellets on top of the tea bag? mjroom.



#12 Ferather

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Posted 12 January 2017 - 03:14 PM

In those two examples I used clean spawn, and assembled them in a SAB. Spawn at the bottom full coverage, sub on top.

The oyster will grow horizontally at the start, making a band or base at the bottom, then it will grow up uniformly.

 

You can fruit as it reaches the surface. You can also use it as a cake or use it as spawn.


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#13 happy4nic8r

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Posted 13 January 2017 - 04:29 AM

I get the multiples of ten example.

 

Only would add that unless you dry out your paper or wood chips or whatever, it's going to have some % water to begin with.

 

Also doesn't 1ml of H2O weigh 1 g?



#14 Ferather

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Posted 13 January 2017 - 11:11 AM

Water is pretty much 1:1 g > ml. But something like paper pellets or vermiculite are definitely not 1:1 g > ml.

 

My calculation factors the 5% present water, in general, total dry weight - 5%.



#15 kcmoxtractor

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Posted 07 February 2017 - 10:35 AM

Here is my King oyster strain consuming enriched 50/50 paper pellets and pine pellets. Using the same grow up method.

 

attachicon.gifIMG_20160817_100800.jpgattachicon.gifIMG_20160818_103825.jpgattachicon.gifIMG_20160819_115832.jpgattachicon.gifIMG_20160822_111521.jpgattachicon.gifIMG_20160902_103417.jpgattachicon.gifIMG_20160902_103525.jpg

 

 

cool, here's my king oyster iso grown from 5050 hwfp/sbh. 1+ lb fruit

 

let's see some pictures of your results. 

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  • 2016-10-30 11.44.32.jpg

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#16 Ferather

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Posted 07 February 2017 - 02:09 PM

One single Golden oyster (branched) tuber:

 

IMG_20160510_153544.jpg

 

 

And indoor version, with less light:

 

IMG_20160729_212252.jpg

IMG_20160731_134953.jpg


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#17 kcmoxtractor

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Posted 12 February 2017 - 10:56 AM

310 grams seems pretty small for yellows, IME they yield every bit as well as

commercial ostreatus isolates. here's one cluster that's 1265 grams (2.79lbs). 

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  • IMG_20160919_133329.jpg


#18 Ferather

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Posted 12 February 2017 - 11:28 AM

The substrate wasn't big enough to do that, twas only 600g of dry sub.



#19 Ferather

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Posted 12 February 2017 - 11:37 AM

Here is 25g (dry) of WL-Tek (paper), in a 250ml container. Full fruiting potential.

Can you fruit using 25g of wood pellets-sawdust? I have never tried it.

 

IMG_20161001_132357.jpg IMG_20161001_132518.jpg IMG_20161001_132526.jpg






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